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Forums - Nintendo - Mark Rein continues to anger Nintendo fanboys

Mr Khan on 24 July 2009
Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:
So either hes an idiot or hes lying. In argument terms I would call that a false dilemma.

He's stating things that are proven untrue or are just flying in the face of industry reality. And these are not just minor claims, but major ones. If they were minor, I would allow room for other things, but for things this extreme, you really would have to be dumb or lying, and I doubt it's the former.

So really what hes doing is saying things which contradict your beliefs and therefore he is wrong?

So theres no charity, no consideration that from his perspective with the games that he and his subscribers to his engine make that there may be some truth in what he says?

The idea that companies making games that they have no competency in and losing money on them is too hard to believe? There are market realities to support his statements, the lack of certain genres like FPS, WRPG, Action games etc.

Well then, let's make this more interesting.

 

Just today, he issued a new statement flatly contradicting what he said (not acknowledging the difference, but severly contradicting it).

 

Observe: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=90695



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Squilliam on 24 July 2009
couchmonkey said:

This is what disruption is all about: Well-managed companies failing.  Epic seems to be a pretty well-run company; I don't know what its recent financials look like but Gears is popular and Unreal Tournament is still doing okay, not to mention sales of the Unreal engine.

 Rein tells us "[Third party core games] are huge financial flops...It's just not where the market is."  He's not wrong, there are a lot of core Wii games with mediocre or bad sales, and Epic's focus to date (graphics) makes Wii a bad platform for them. In other words, he's telling us that Wii has crummy customers that aren't very profitable and Epic is going to stick to the tried-and-true high-end customers that pay Epic tons of money. 

This seems like a smart move.  He's managing correctly.  Just like most upmarket competitors, he has (apparently) correctly argued that the new market isn't worth fighting for. 

The problem is that if Nintendo is right, if disruption is real, then Epic is going to have to change it's tune or it will be erased from the gaming scene.  Wii is already marginalizing Epic: a decade ago Epic could have released a new engine for all three consoles.  Now its engine is only relevant for 50% of the home consoles on the market.  If Wii graphics are good enough for the majority of gamers, or even if 360 graphics are good enough for the majority of gamers, where does that leave Epic on the next round of systems?  Why should developers buy Unreal Engine 4 if the next MS and Sony consoles are just "1.5" systems like the Wii?  Historically disruptors drive their competition out of the business as the disruptor's new values take over. 

We can debate whether disruption is real or if Nintendo is successfully carrying it out, but given the turnaround Nintendo has achieved this generation, I'm inclined to guess that the Big N's strategy is a lot more in tune with what the public wants than Epic.

So are they 'not making engines' for the 48% of the market? I don't think so. I would say the Wii has something like 20% of the market for the games which require his Unreal Engine which is a little different from just ignoring 48% of the market. The Wii may very well not be profitable for a shooter developer like Epic. I haven't seen developers rush to make shooter games exclusively for the Wii, and I don't think that the Conduits sales will encourage this or the lack of Call of Duty is going to encourage the smaller/bigger publishers.

How exactly has the Wii marginalised Epic? In spite of the Wii they are the most profitable than they have ever been. Perhaps you're threatened by the fact that their success has come in spite of exclusively ignoring the Wii in whole in the market. I don't see how the Wii is doing anything to their market, actually its probably helping them by concentrating their core customers on the PS3/Xbox 360 and its definately done nothing disruptive to the core game market. Finally as for UE4, well im sure he has things under control in house, any criticism of UE4 by you is like my criticising a builder for how he holds a hammer. Its not my place as I know nothing about building.



Tease.

Squilliam on 24 July 2009
Mr Khan said:
Squilliam said:

So really what hes doing is saying things which contradict your beliefs and therefore he is wrong?

So theres no charity, no consideration that from his perspective with the games that he and his subscribers to his engine make that there may be some truth in what he says?

The idea that companies making games that they have no competency in and losing money on them is too hard to believe? There are market realities to support his statements, the lack of certain genres like FPS, WRPG, Action games etc.

Well then, let's make this more interesting.

 

Just today, he issued a new statement flatly contradicting what he said (not acknowledging the difference, but severly contradicting it).

 

Observe: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=90695

My guess is that EA wasn't happy with his comments on Madden. This is essentially a retraction due to pressure whether its internal or external.



Tease.

LordTheNightKnight on 24 July 2009

“The kind of games we make just would not work well on Wii. With our high-end engine, making a game work on Wii would spread our resources too thin and cause us to lose focus. Hardcore games have been hit or miss on Wii. Some have done well, some have not and we would not expect Gears or any of our games to sell well on the system. Games like Madden are great, especially since the developer designed a user interface specifically for Wii, but again, doing something like that would take up resources we are using to make other titles. Again, I never said making games for Wii was a waste. There are some great games for it, but it’s just not for us.”

The scary thing is that if he had said that at first, I would have believed it, but now it just seems like damage control.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

SaviorX on 24 July 2009
Squilliam said:
Mr Khan said:
Squilliam said:

So really what hes doing is saying things which contradict your beliefs and therefore he is wrong?

So theres no charity, no consideration that from his perspective with the games that he and his subscribers to his engine make that there may be some truth in what he says?

The idea that companies making games that they have no competency in and losing money on them is too hard to believe? There are market realities to support his statements, the lack of certain genres like FPS, WRPG, Action games etc.

Well then, let's make this more interesting.

 

Just today, he issued a new statement flatly contradicting what he said (not acknowledging the difference, but severly contradicting it).

 

Observe: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=90695

My guess is that EA wasn't happy with his comments on Madden. This is essentially a retraction due to pressure whether its internal or external.

     Now he is singing a different tune huh?  If what you posted in the link was the FIRST thing he said, the only thing I would have a problem with, is his idea that a huge brand name like Gears of War wouldn't sell well on the Wii.

 

Now he is just trying to save face or something; sounds insincere.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

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Kasz216 on 24 July 2009
LordTheNightKnight said:
“The kind of games we make just would not work well on Wii. With our high-end engine, making a game work on Wii would spread our resources too thin and cause us to lose focus. Hardcore games have been hit or miss on Wii. Some have done well, some have not and we would not expect Gears or any of our games to sell well on the system. Games like Madden are great, especially since the developer designed a user interface specifically for Wii, but again, doing something like that would take up resources we are using to make other titles. Again, I never said making games for Wii was a waste. There are some great games for it, but it’s just not for us.”

The scary thing is that if he had said that at first, I would have believed it, but now it just seems like damage control.

It's the truth though.

These guys make a KILLING even with the Wii taking away a shit load of market share.

It's way cheaper to develop an engine for the Wii so there is just less need for middleware on the wii.



Kasz216 on 24 July 2009

Also Squilliam. UE3 isn't only for FPS. It can be used for any kind of game.

Didn't Last Remnant use it for example?

Another example are EA sports games. They all use the same engine.



Squilliam on 24 July 2009

Yeah I know, but shooters are the primary users of the engine. Lost Odyssey used the engine as well IIRC.



Tease.

LordTheNightKnight on 24 July 2009
Kasz216 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
“The kind of games we make just would not work well on Wii. With our high-end engine, making a game work on Wii would spread our resources too thin and cause us to lose focus. Hardcore games have been hit or miss on Wii. Some have done well, some have not and we would not expect Gears or any of our games to sell well on the system. Games like Madden are great, especially since the developer designed a user interface specifically for Wii, but again, doing something like that would take up resources we are using to make other titles. Again, I never said making games for Wii was a waste. There are some great games for it, but it’s just not for us.”

The scary thing is that if he had said that at first, I would have believed it, but now it just seems like damage control.

It's the truth though.

These guys make a KILLING even with the Wii taking away a shit load of market share.

It's way cheaper to develop an engine for the Wii so there is just less need for middleware on the wii.

Unless they make some killer middleware for it. They think there wouldn't be demand, but with HVS reporting all these requests to license their Quantum 3 Engine (which they hopefully will now that The Conduit is out), it shows there is a market Epic can tap.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Final-Fan on 24 July 2009
Squilliam said:
The Wii isn't some white knight of the industry, galloping in to save everyone from themselves. Do you guys not realise that long term its in the large publishers best interests to have expensive games?

The Wii isn't profitable overall anymore because so many games are being made for the platform and the cost of entry for developers is so low that a bunch of crud is essentially filling up the shelves. The equilibrium thats being made is that on average theres no profit to be had.

In the longer term for the industry, the large publishers want restricted entry into the industry so they can reap higher profits. They want and need expensive games to reduce competition and prevent others from taking that leap from small time to big time developer.

Essentially its like this. Higher development cost leads to less competition which leads to higher profits. Lower development cost leads to more competition which leads to lower profits. This is over the longer term.

If there's too much competition in the "shitty Wii games" department, they can always ... make better games.  It's not rocket science. 



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