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Forums - Nintendo - Mark Rein continues to anger Nintendo fanboys

Final-Fan said:
Squilliam said:
The Wii isn't some white knight of the industry, galloping in to save everyone from themselves. Do you guys not realise that long term its in the large publishers best interests to have expensive games?

The Wii isn't profitable overall anymore because so many games are being made for the platform and the cost of entry for developers is so low that a bunch of crud is essentially filling up the shelves. The equilibrium thats being made is that on average theres no profit to be had.

In the longer term for the industry, the large publishers want restricted entry into the industry so they can reap higher profits. They want and need expensive games to reduce competition and prevent others from taking that leap from small time to big time developer.

Essentially its like this. Higher development cost leads to less competition which leads to higher profits. Lower development cost leads to more competition which leads to lower profits. This is over the longer term.

If there's too much competition in the "shitty Wii games" department, they can always ... make better games.  It's not rocket science. 

Nope it doesn't matter what games are made on average, the market will become so flooded that the overall revenue meets overall expenditure with a margin to justify the capital investment.



Tease.

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Squilliam said:
Final-Fan said:
Squilliam said:
The Wii isn't some white knight of the industry, galloping in to save everyone from themselves. Do you guys not realise that long term its in the large publishers best interests to have expensive games?

The Wii isn't profitable overall anymore because so many games are being made for the platform and the cost of entry for developers is so low that a bunch of crud is essentially filling up the shelves. The equilibrium thats being made is that on average theres no profit to be had.

In the longer term for the industry, the large publishers want restricted entry into the industry so they can reap higher profits. They want and need expensive games to reduce competition and prevent others from taking that leap from small time to big time developer.

Essentially its like this. Higher development cost leads to less competition which leads to higher profits. Lower development cost leads to more competition which leads to lower profits. This is over the longer term.

If there's too much competition in the "shitty Wii games" department, they can always ... make better games.  It's not rocket science. 

Nope it doesn't matter what games are made on average, the market will become so flooded that the overall revenue meets overall expenditure with a margin to justify the capital investment.

Nope, you haven't proven it's bad to make good games for the Wii, because that scenario should have happened with other systems, and it hasn't. Don't you dare insult our intelligence by even thinking you can convince us the Wii is different.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:

Nope it doesn't matter what games are made on average, the market will become so flooded that the overall revenue meets overall expenditure with a margin to justify the capital investment.

Nope, you haven't proven it's bad to make good games for the Wii, because that scenario should have happened with other systems, and it hasn't. Don't you dare insult our intelligence by even thinking you can convince us the Wii is different.

I haven't tried to. All I said was that the Wii isn't going to make the industry massively profitable overall. It doesn't matter how they approach the Wii, its just a function of the market that as long as there are companies which are profitable there will be more entrants into the market until the average profit is simply a return on capital investment and nothing more.



Tease.

"All I said was that the Wii isn't going to make the industry massively profitable overall."

No, you also implied there would be a flood of good games that would somehow be a bad thing. If you had just stated that other thing, I wouldn't have an issue.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:

Nope it doesn't matter what games are made on average, the market will become so flooded that the overall revenue meets overall expenditure with a margin to justify the capital investment.

Nope, you haven't proven it's bad to make good games for the Wii, because that scenario should have happened with other systems, and it hasn't. Don't you dare insult our intelligence by even thinking you can convince us the Wii is different.

I haven't tried to. All I said was that the Wii isn't going to make the industry massively profitable overall. It doesn't matter how they approach the Wii, its just a function of the market that as long as there are companies which are profitable there will be more entrants into the market until the average profit is simply a return on capital investment and nothing more.

Did this same situation occur with the Playstation 2?

 

Average profit doesn't sound like it should be used in this sense either. Some games succeed, others fail, so the average should just be a break-even balance.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

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SaviorX said:
Squilliam said:

I haven't tried to. All I said was that the Wii isn't going to make the industry massively profitable overall. It doesn't matter how they approach the Wii, its just a function of the market that as long as there are companies which are profitable there will be more entrants into the market until the average profit is simply a return on capital investment and nothing more.

Did this same situation occur with the Playstation 2?

 

Average profit doesn't sound like it should be used in this sense either. Some games succeed, others fail, so the average should just be a break-even balance.

Im talking about the overall balance of the industry. In essence you can't save the companies from themselves. However in this sense as the sales/revenue ratios are vastly skewed towards a few blockbuster selling games the majority of games whatever system you care to think of will lose money. My point is that the Wii is no exception to this. My other point is that a more restricted entry and less competition means that in a less competitive market there is a possibility of gathering a higher profit margin on average industry wide.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:

Nope it doesn't matter what games are made on average, the market will become so flooded that the overall revenue meets overall expenditure with a margin to justify the capital investment.

Nope, you haven't proven it's bad to make good games for the Wii, because that scenario should have happened with other systems, and it hasn't. Don't you dare insult our intelligence by even thinking you can convince us the Wii is different.

I haven't tried to. All I said was that the Wii isn't going to make the industry massively profitable overall. It doesn't matter how they approach the Wii, its just a function of the market that as long as there are companies which are profitable there will be more entrants into the market until the average profit is simply a return on capital investment and nothing more.

So ... are you suggesting that to have high profit margins, a game-making market should have lots of companies that are losing money?  If not, then what exactly is your argument?



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Looks like it's official (again), VGChartz rabble knowz all about the games industry. Industry vets shamed by their own dumbness, relative to VGChartz rabblerousers. How do games industry vets do their work, being so lazy and dumb? Do they bathe? Can they even add?

Also, in other news, big game "failures" like Lair, Crackdown, Haze, and Too Human charged as bills to developers by publishers. Sent with note "You brakinz our zer0-risk contract, now you owez us bux!" Devs go out of business, paying publishers back for their troubles.

Full stories at 11.



 

Final-Fan said:
Squilliam said:

I haven't tried to. All I said was that the Wii isn't going to make the industry massively profitable overall. It doesn't matter how they approach the Wii, its just a function of the market that as long as there are companies which are profitable there will be more entrants into the market until the average profit is simply a return on capital investment and nothing more.

So ... are you suggesting that to have high profit margins, a game-making market should have lots of companies that are losing money?  If not, then what exactly is your argument?

Im saying that the more monopolistic the section of the market, the more potential profits to be had. If the cost of entry for the next generation is say 40M for new releases then you would have what is in essence an oligopoly of publishers; Acti-Bliz, EA, Ubi, Take2 and say Bethesda who can release games on the systems and thus competition will be more limited. The more open the market, the more perfect the competition the better it is for consumers and the worse it is for developers and publishers as competition drives down margins. This is likely one of the reasons why the big publishers haven't given the Wii the interest they perhaps should have because they are looking at the long term viability of each market.

@Procrastinato: Very funny stuff.



Tease.

^ I see. Aside from your argument itself, I think that gives publishers WAAAY too much credit, especially due to the "long term" part. In fact, I think it's a big problem that too many companies are chasing the immediate buck without looking at the long term.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!