Not enough trolling for you in the MS threads Trattle?

HappySqurriel said: One thing a lot of people don't consider is that many publishers have over-done the (so called) "Casual" games on the Wii because of how successful it has been with unconventional gamers ... If you go back through the generations you will see that most third party publishers have desperately tried to make games which appealed to people outside of the conventional gaming demographics and have had very little success. Many of these companies realized a long time ago that unless the game market grew beyond its traditional boundries there was a limit to how large the industry could become; but they were trapped because they had no (real) knowlege on how to break into new markets. Many publishers (at the moment) are so focused on developing the Madden/Halo/GTA for the (so called) "Casual" gamers that they would ignore the oportunity to produce a highly profitable multi-million selling game for the Wii unless it falls into a genre that conventional wisdom tells them (so called) "Casual" gamers are interested in.

Yeah it's a known fact that all developer/publisher companies are headed by stupid executives that never try to increase the profit their company makes...

Seriously the constant criticizing of gaming companies for not delivering what people want on the Wii is really getting old...

These guys mostly know their job and their bonus/stock options depend on how well their company do so if there was a way to reap huge profit on the Wii, they would be all over it...

And if you think you know the market so much better than them. Why the heck don't you start your own company ??? 

 

Reading these forums feels like reading monday quaterback posts after the superbowl sometime..

So basically Nintendo will still make boatloads of cash, more than Sony proberly ever will on any system. While we all complain it doesn't have as much third party support.

Um I think Nintendo don't honestly care and enjoy third partys try to sell there crap because it just pushes Nintendo (Being one of the only decent developers on the system) software into sales records.

So basically, third partys let Nintendo win. Good job third partys round of applause for you all.

Well this gen is already quite a way in so it is so obvious Wii will never get PS2 level support.  However, that is almost a blessing in disguise for Nintendo because contrary to what Wii haters may think Wii owners buy games especially if they are good and if the only options for good games available are Nintendo games then Nintendo games are going to sell like mad. 

Dno said: Viper1 said: Dno said: Viper1 said: Actually, Dno, there are more games releasing to retail on the Wii than the PS3 and X360 combined. It's both a blessing and a curse. o this is true and i no but i dont expect huge number from any 3rd party game this year on wii but ps360 has CODMW2, Assaissans cred, splinter Cell, etc etc all to do HUGE numbers. (i could be forgetting a lot but im not gonna look it up lol) This is where a lot of people fail to look at the whole picture.   Being a sales site that looks very closely at individual game sales we tend to believe 3rd party games on Wii don't sell very well and this holds some truth...the issue is that publishers tend to look at the portfolio as a whole where the Wii tends to actually have more sales overall (and at times more revenue too as was the case seen in that Activision thread).   We forget that publishers don't expect every game to sell X number of million units and that they actually intent to only sell at times a few hundred thousand and that's it.  For example: Publisher A might release 1 big title on the HD consoles with expected sales of 2 million total while releasing 6 games on Wii expecting sales of 400k a piece which is a total of 2.4 million.   The above scenario doesn't look particularly appealing for Wii from a blockbuster games centric viewpoint (which is the viewpoint most consumers have) but it's very apealing to the publishers and investors.   True that Wii owners would love more actual blockbuster this thrown in the mix but given the development time it takes to plan, secure funding and develop those kinds of games, it's little wonder we haven't received many when you consider the list I provided on page 3.     yes good post i can see that. but when you expect a game to sell 5-6 million you dont put it on the wii. this is what the source said also So this proves that most of the that companies dont need the wii as much as people think they do because if thats the case then a lot of companies would be dead but most are doing fine. now i think a lot of companies see the wiis install base and goes lets try to milk it  but so far lots of HD only companies are doing fine.

The one problem being that most publishers are not doing fine.  Take a look at the financial reports from those publishers.  Many are heavily in debt now and others are seeing lowered profits.

Some will want to attribute this to the economy, others will say the HD consoles are financial burdens and many other potential validations for the losses.  All are correct in their own way with neither being an overwhelming factor.

Given this it is certainly wise for publishers to populate their gaming portfolio will profitable Wii titles to prop up losses taken upon by big projects that don't deliver.  Ubisoft (and others) have openly stated that Wii profits prop up big HD console projects because the HD projects alone don't provide enough Return On Investment by themselves.  This is only an example and not representative of every company but it does illustrate the point with a real world circumstance.

 

As for companies not going dead, do you not recall how many publishers and developers have closed or been forced to merge with a bigger studio this generation?

Ail said: Yeah it's a known fact that all developer/publisher companies are headed by stupid executives that never try to increase the profit their company makes... Seriously the constant criticizing of gaming companies for not delivering what people want on the Wii is really getting old... These guys mostly know their job and their bonus/stock options depend on how well their company do so if there was a way to reap huge profit on the Wii, they would be all over it... And if you think you know the market so much better than them. Why the heck don't you start your own company ???    Reading these forums feels like reading monday quaterback posts after the superbowl sometime..

If all these publishers are so well run, why do they have games which reliably bring in tens (or hundreds) of millions of dollars in profit and still lose money on a regular basis? If they're so well run why are their debts growing at a rate where many of these companies will be bankrupt before the next generation begins? If the management has such foresight why did they expect the PSP to dominate the Nintendo DS, and the PS3 to dominate the Wii, and then spend years trying to catch up?

 

Anyways, I think you misunderstood me anyways ...

To put it another way, the way most publishers manage risk is by only producing products where there has been a demonstrated high level of demand for those products and this results in the industry (on the whole) moving as a herd. Even though many publishers would be more successful brining their Wii Fit clones or party games to HD consoles, or producing a First person shooter for the Wii, they will continue to produce a game which would be lucky to be the 5th or 6th best selling game in a genre on a platform in a year (probably for a couple hundred thousand sales). If you're dealing with a cheap Mario Party clone that isn't that bad, but when you've "only" spent $10 Million on your "low budget" HD console FPS being the 6th best game in your genre on a console in a year will push you to very large losses.

Dinomax said: So basically Nintendo will still make boatloads of cash, more than Sony proberly ever will on any system. While we all complain it doesn't have as much third party support. Um I think Nintendo don't honestly care and enjoy third partys try to sell there crap because it just pushes Nintendo (Being one of the only decent developers on the system) software into sales records. So basically, third partys let Nintendo win. Good job third partys round of applause for you all.

Yeah, except at the last GDC Iwata was saying, "People want core games on the system.  And we want those kinds of core games that gave PS2 over 500+ Green games on Metacritic on Wii too.  And its up to third parties to supply them while we at Nintendo go off and please our blue ocean fans and continue to release sequels to games in tried and true series."

It's not word for word but it's basically the same.

txrattlesnake said: Dinomax said: So basically Nintendo will still make boatloads of cash, more than Sony proberly ever will on any system. While we all complain it doesn't have as much third party support. Um I think Nintendo don't honestly care and enjoy third partys try to sell there crap because it just pushes Nintendo (Being one of the only decent developers on the system) software into sales records. So basically, third partys let Nintendo win. Good job third partys round of applause for you all. Yeah, except at the last GDC Iwata was saying, "People want core games on the system.  And we want those kinds of core games that gave PS2 over 500+ Green games on Metacritic on Wii too.  And its up to third parties to supply them while we at Nintendo go off and please our blue ocean fans and continue to release sequels to games in tried and true series." It's not word for word but it's basically the same.

 

People want core games, but third partys don't want to deliver them.  Theres the exceptional few. 

 

See how third partys give Nintendo a free win now?  There that willing NOT to compete against the market leader.  So when people scream out ""CORE GAMES"" Nintendo is there more than third partys. 

It literally became ""the Nintendo Wii""  for a reason.  Because third partys let it happen. 

Dno said: but when you expect a game to sell 5-6 million you dont put it on the wii. this is what the source said also So this proves that most of the that companies dont need the wii as much as people think they do because if thats the case then a lot of companies would be dead but most are doing fine. now i think a lot of companies see the wiis install base and goes lets try to milk it  but so far lots of HD only companies are doing fine.

And what were the HD only companies? This is what i've been arguing with you. I can't name a single "one platform" publisher, they all make their money with multiple platforms.
Look, we can remove any platform and say the publishers doesn't need it, because there are other platforms to profit with, all they have to do is change the model they work with. If the publishers would change to "blockbuster only" -model (that seems like being the only profitable model on HD consoles), is when F5 example comes into picture.
Ditching Wii, would mean they'd have to replace Wii revenue/profit with PSP and DS, both that already have more games than people wants to buy.

As for Epic, their engines are on PC, PS3 and 360. So, no, they aren't a console only developer. Their product is the games engine.

Ail said: Yeah it's a known fact that all developer/publisher companies are headed by stupid executives that never try to increase the profit their company makes... Seriously the constant criticizing of gaming companies for not delivering what people want on the Wii is really getting old... These guys mostly know their job and their bonus/stock options depend on how well their company do so if there was a way to reap huge profit on the Wii, they would be all over it... And if you think you know the market so much better than them. Why the heck don't you start your own company ???    Reading these forums feels like reading monday quaterback posts after the superbowl sometime..

I do agree that the complaint about the devs not delivering the games people want to play for Wii, is getting old. Which is why it's very intresting why they still aren't doing so.

Actually the CEO:s of these companies are following the model they think is right, in a worst case, they have developed they model so far, that they can't even change it, without restructuring the company. Think about the US car manufacturers; despite market rejecting them for years, they still kept pushing the same thing, because they thought it was the only way to go. They could keep on going as long as they could outsource their production to Korea to keep up with declining profits.
Or, think about an athlete, who complains about taxes and doesn't move to Monaco, where there are no income tax (or is just marginal).

Looking at the game sales and profits of Nintendo, you really have to be blind if you can't see money on Wii. 3rd parties likely keep on being in denial, until the elephant is too big for them to keep pretending they don't see it.
It's going to follow the same tracks with NES, that the devs tried to avoid like plague "because you couldn't make money with the fad", but eventually jumped the ship in droves, because of the money to be made with the system.

I really don't care a lot about 3rd party games though, all I have on my wii are first party games. Most of which I've played for (a lot) more then 40 hours...

I think I've bought all decent first party titles on the wii now and now waiting for new super mario bros. wii, metroid: other M, super mario galaxy 2, zelda: wii and perhaps a few 3rd party games like monster hunter 3, spyborgs, silent hill: shattered memories, muramasa,etc

I have nothing to complain about :)