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Forums - General - FIFA to no longer allow players to celebrate with religious shirts

Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:
 

Lol, no I'm afraid you misunderstood. It was the view of liberalism you gave, it was very broad bearing the extreme.

I don't share views with the extremists who 'burn the flag' so to speak, they don't talk for me.


A. Oh. Ok, great. But unfortunately you're all pushing the lot of things in the society in the wrong direction.

B. I think youre missing the point slightly on this topic or skewing it in the wrong direction - because I dont think FIFA is afraid of riots, I dont think that's their reason for denying religious expression like innocent T-shirts. I am afraid it's something deeper and more modern than that (see my Swedish example). Much like you uself hinted at earlier, that you're against religous people/Christians expressing their faith for more sublime reasons than fear of riots and physical violence. Because you're in fact pushing the 'mental rape' argument.

A. Haha, we see it the other way... It's preference, their is no right or wrong direction, just what you believe is good for the country. Believe it or not, when I was younger I was fairly conservative myself, but my views changed with my personal experience of the world.

B. I'm afraid that was partly my view outside of football. I have had an 'aversion' if you will (tottaly not the right word, but I can't think of the one I need.). I'm not against religion deep down, but I'm from a Christian family and from a young age I was told what to believe and it caused me to not be big on the whole 'preaching' thing. Sorry if thiat offended you in any way.

-Edit-

Also, I hope I haven't come accross as 'anti-Christian' at some point. I have tried not to single out one religion and truth be told Christianity is the one I am closest too.



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WessleWoggle said:
Would you people want them wearing shirts that said 'Hail Satan 666'?

Jesus is offensive to some people too...

Everything is offensive to someone.  Heck, ask zexen about just the normal Brazil shirt! ;)



In Memoriam RVW Jr.

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I can see that I am too stubborn to change my viewpoint on this and a lot of you guys won't change your view either. So on that note I think I am going to agree to disagree and leave before I come off sounding like a dickhead lol.



highwaystar101 said:
Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:
 

Lol, no I'm afraid you misunderstood. It was the view of liberalism you gave, it was very broad bearing the extreme.

I don't share views with the extremists who 'burn the flag' so to speak, they don't talk for me.


A. Oh. Ok, great. But unfortunately you're all pushing the lot of things in the society in the wrong direction.

B. I think youre missing the point slightly on this topic or skewing it in the wrong direction - because I dont think FIFA is afraid of riots, I dont think that's their reason for denying religious expression like innocent T-shirts. I am afraid it's something deeper and more modern than that (see my Swedish example). Much like you uself hinted at earlier, that you're against religous people/Christians expressing their faith for more sublime reasons than fear of riots and physical violence. Because you're in fact pushing the 'mental rape' argument.

A. Haha, we see it the other way... It's preference, their is no right or wrong direction, just what you believe is good for the country. Believe it or not, when I was younger I was fairly conservative myself, but my views changed with my personal experience of the world.

B. I'm afraid that was partly my view outside of football. I have had an 'aversion' if you will (tottaly not the right word, but I can't think of the one I need.). I'm not against religion deep down, but I'm from a Christian family and from a young age I was told what to believe and it caused me to not be big on the whole 'preaching' thing. Sorry if thiat offended you in any way.

-Edit-

Also, I hope I haven't come accross as 'anti-Christian' at some point. I have tried not to single out one religion and truth be told Christianity is the one I am closest too.


No, u dont have to xplain that. Im 100 % sure both marciosmg, Kasz and myself clearly have understood from your general tone that you aren't a religion-hater, or a zealot rabid-atheist etc. Dont worry, we can detect your stance and attitude.

So thank you for the clarification, it's really nice, but neither of us were offended. =)

So, back to the topic.



Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:
@ Kasz...

Don't call my argument self-centered and selfish!!!!!! You don't actually read my posts do you? Because you totally missed my whole argument.

You just don't get it. I'm not saying no-one is allowed to follow religion. I'm saying everyone should be able to follow the religion of their choice on the field. It's not stopping freedom in anyway! FIFA just don't want religion to interfere with the game and become an issue that skews it.

No rights are being taken away, FIFA is a group not a government in case you don't realise. All groups have rule to protect the interests and FIFA just don't want anything to do with religion and I acknowledge and respect that because I like all fans go to a football match TO WATCH FOOTBALL, nothing else.

So people rights to follow religion still exist, none have been taken away. They just don't want an issue made out of religion because it will cause them problems.

FIFA have nipped it in the bud before a problem of a Muslim team plays a Christian team arises and all hell breaks lose.

Nice spin buddy. Teams from all over the world have played against each other for almost hundred years, including Christian versus Muslim nations. It's been no problem so far.

That's just not true.  Did you ever stop and wonder why Israel plays in UEFA and not AFC?



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elprincipe said:
Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:
@ Kasz...

Don't call my argument self-centered and selfish!!!!!! You don't actually read my posts do you? Because you totally missed my whole argument.

You just don't get it. I'm not saying no-one is allowed to follow religion. I'm saying everyone should be able to follow the religion of their choice on the field. It's not stopping freedom in anyway! FIFA just don't want religion to interfere with the game and become an issue that skews it.

No rights are being taken away, FIFA is a group not a government in case you don't realise. All groups have rule to protect the interests and FIFA just don't want anything to do with religion and I acknowledge and respect that because I like all fans go to a football match TO WATCH FOOTBALL, nothing else.

So people rights to follow religion still exist, none have been taken away. They just don't want an issue made out of religion because it will cause them problems.

FIFA have nipped it in the bud before a problem of a Muslim team plays a Christian team arises and all hell breaks lose.

Nice spin buddy. Teams from all over the world have played against each other for almost hundred years, including Christian versus Muslim nations. It's been no problem so far.

That's just not true.  Did you ever stop and wonder why Israel plays in UEFA and not AFC?

What can I say? There's an exception to every rule lol.



Kasz216 said:

But you aren't.

You are against free expression... you are against these players from being aloud to express themselves.

If you truley were for freedom of expression you would be upset.

You're just "freedom of expression for what i like."

It's exactly the same as banning a flag of national anthem.

It's not the same at all.  FIFA has certain rules and regulations that must be followed for teams to compete.  Players must wear matching uniforms with numbers on the back, for example.  They're certainly within their rights to outlaw this sort of thing.  This isn't about freedom of expression, other than being able to express yourself with a T-shirt while at work.  I don't know about y'all, but I can't do that, and I'm sure plenty of others can't do it either.  We have to be dressed a certain way to conduct business.  This is the same, as long as FIFA doesn't try to forbid wearing such a T-shirt when off the field.

Keep in mind that although I think FIFA can make such rules as a condition for entering their competition (if they couldn't, you'd be infringing on their freedom to structure their competition the way they see fit), I do disagree with making this rule as I think it takes away from the game rather than adds to it.



In Memoriam RVW Jr.

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Slimebeast said:
elprincipe said:
Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:
@ Kasz...

Don't call my argument self-centered and selfish!!!!!! You don't actually read my posts do you? Because you totally missed my whole argument.

You just don't get it. I'm not saying no-one is allowed to follow religion. I'm saying everyone should be able to follow the religion of their choice on the field. It's not stopping freedom in anyway! FIFA just don't want religion to interfere with the game and become an issue that skews it.

No rights are being taken away, FIFA is a group not a government in case you don't realise. All groups have rule to protect the interests and FIFA just don't want anything to do with religion and I acknowledge and respect that because I like all fans go to a football match TO WATCH FOOTBALL, nothing else.

So people rights to follow religion still exist, none have been taken away. They just don't want an issue made out of religion because it will cause them problems.

FIFA have nipped it in the bud before a problem of a Muslim team plays a Christian team arises and all hell breaks lose.

Nice spin buddy. Teams from all over the world have played against each other for almost hundred years, including Christian versus Muslim nations. It's been no problem so far.

That's just not true.  Did you ever stop and wonder why Israel plays in UEFA and not AFC?

What can I say? There's an exception to every rule lol.

I was wondering as well, why Highwaystar didn't stand to this spin.

So it worked well without a "I belong to Jesus"-shirt for 100 years, why should you now need to wear one. It's absolutely okay, if they're Christians, Muslim, etc. and they pray before the game, but do they really have to wear a shirt to show it?

It started some years ago and the shirt-thing is quite common with Brazilian players (Kaka, Ze Roberto, Lucio always wear them) and now it's coming to a point, where they overdid it. I'm actually sick of seeing one every time a Brazilian scores.

The problem is not, that they're proud Christians, the problem is, that this is actually becoming political. Imagine the next World Cup Brazil plays Saudi Arabia and then all of the players show their faith on a shirt - well that's political then.

And politics simply shouldn't be a part of football.

 



Even my old lady who thinks christianity is a joke thinks this is bullshit.



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elprincipe said:
Kasz216 said:
 

But you aren't.

You are against free expression... you are against these players from being aloud to express themselves.

If you truley were for freedom of expression you would be upset.

You're just "freedom of expression for what i like."

It's exactly the same as banning a flag of national anthem.

It's not the same at all.  FIFA has certain rules and regulations that must be followed for teams to compete.  Players must wear matching uniforms with numbers on the back, for example.  They're certainly within their rights to outlaw this sort of thing.  This isn't about freedom of expression, other than being able to express yourself with a T-shirt while at work.  I don't know about y'all, but I can't do that, and I'm sure plenty of others can't do it either.  We have to be dressed a certain way to conduct business.  This is the same, as long as FIFA doesn't try to forbid wearing such a T-shirt when off the field.

Keep in mind that although I think FIFA can make such rules as a condition for entering their competition (if they couldn't, you'd be infringing on their freedom to structure their competition the way they see fit), I do disagree with making this rule as I think it takes away from the game rather than adds to it.

"Everyone must where this jersey" is an acceptable code.

"You can't show any non-regulation T-shirt after scoring" is an acceptable code.

"You can't show religious T-shirts after scoring" is not.

It's showing specific bias against one realm of topic for no reason.