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Forums - Nintendo - Super Mario Galaxy - 720p through Wii emulator.

MaxwellGT2000 said:

Call me when the emulator works 100%, makes the textures higher rez automatically without someone having to redraw them all AKA remaking the game, and makes the 3D models better.  Which it won't, ever, so the game will never really look "better" just the same with less jaggies and more pixels.

People get excited over nothing is my point here, we've already had comments in this thread implied rendering the game in 720p is "ZOMG AMAZING" and people are getting excited over nothing especailly when the game looks worse because the emulator screws up the graphics.

"The same with less jaggies and more pixels" is a bit of an oxymoron. If it has less jaggies and if they add AA and if textures are less muddled in the distance because of higher rendering resolution (which won't need higher resolution textures) and if the same 3D models will show more details (Mario does in those shots) it will not look the same, it will almost certainly look better.

It might be not different enough for you, nor is it very important for me, but I have friends with big HD screens and projection systems that find a 480p picture with no AA very unsatisfying. And again my point is not what this GC/Wii emulator does right now, but what it can be done with Wii games, especially by Nintendo.



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"..." - Gordon Freeman

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looks the same thing, the game was not made in order to run in 720p anyway



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WereKitten said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:

Call me when the emulator works 100%, makes the textures higher rez automatically without someone having to redraw them all AKA remaking the game, and makes the 3D models better.  Which it won't, ever, so the game will never really look "better" just the same with less jaggies and more pixels.

People get excited over nothing is my point here, we've already had comments in this thread implied rendering the game in 720p is "ZOMG AMAZING" and people are getting excited over nothing especailly when the game looks worse because the emulator screws up the graphics.

"The same with less jaggies and more pixels" is a bit of an oxymoron. If it has less jaggies and if they add AA and if textures are less muddled in the distance because of higher rendering resolution (which won't need higher resolution textures) and if the same 3D models will show more details (Mario does in those shots) it will not look the same, it will almost certainly look better.

It might be not different enough for you, nor is it very important for me, but I have friends with big HD screens and projection systems that find a 480p picture with no AA very unsatisfying. And again my point is not what this GC/Wii emulator does right now, but what it can be done with Wii games, especially by Nintendo.

The game has always had AA, you can only see jaggies if you get right up on the picture if you're playing the game on a 1080p set you can't tell there are any jaggies until you either get right up close or blow it up on a giant projector, both of which are uncommon and not practical.

I'm figuring the game is probably doing times 2 AA already the 720p screens are probably times 4 or 8 AA which you don't need on your typical home set up. 

The things the 720p images lack is a lot worse then the gaining of a bit more AA and resolution.  Again to really mae an improvement you'd need to redraw the textures, make sure the emulator can run everything correctly, and give the models more detail, which all this means they'd have to remake the game...



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MaxwellGT2000 said:
WereKitten said:

"The same with less jaggies and more pixels" is a bit of an oxymoron. If it has less jaggies and if they add AA and if textures are less muddled in the distance because of higher rendering resolution (which won't need higher resolution textures) and if the same 3D models will show more details (Mario does in those shots) it will not look the same, it will almost certainly look better.

It might be not different enough for you, nor is it very important for me, but I have friends with big HD screens and projection systems that find a 480p picture with no AA very unsatisfying. And again my point is not what this GC/Wii emulator does right now, but what it can be done with Wii games, especially by Nintendo.

The game has always had AA, you can only see jaggies if you get right up on the picture if you're playing the game on a 1080p set you can't tell there are any jaggies until you either get right up close or blow it up on a giant projector, both of which are uncommon and not practical.

I'm figuring the game is probably doing times 2 AA already the 720p screens are probably times 4 or 8 AA which you don't need on your typical home set up. 

The things the 720p images lack is a lot worse then the gaining of a bit more AA and resolution.  Again to really mae an improvement you'd need to redraw the textures, make sure the emulator can run everything correctly, and give the models more detail, which all this means they'd have to remake the game...

I have not access to my Wii right now, but from the screenshots you posted sharp jaggies are clearly visible on the leaves, on the edge of the dino piranha against the dark background of space etc. Between shader effects and JPEG artifacts I can't really see how much AA is happening there, but if there's some, it's clearly failing at smoothing the jaggies because of the low resolution. On the other hand it's quite clear that there's no AA in those emulator shots.

And though it's been some time since I played SMG on my 42" plasma, I can tell that jaggies were very evident while playing. Not enough to detract from the great game, but something that can be improved upon for sure.

So let's not fool ourselves here. It's clear that once AA is applied to the 720p image and the glitches are fixed the visual improvement is great, even with the very same textures and models. Just look at Mario in the emulated version and in the "original" one and tell me you see no difference: it's only obvious that the increased resolution will do wonders for a detailed model that is kept quite small on-screen.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

WereKitten said:

And though it's been some time since I played SMG on my 42" plasma, I can tell that jaggies were very evident while playing. Not enough to detract from the great game, but something that can be improved upon for sure.

I have a 42" Panasonic and no jaggies, just some (few) in the Observatory. Remember that different TV's have different upscale engines, and I took that into account when purchasing mine.

Neverthless, Mario Galaxy has AA... that's for sure ;)



     

 

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^Mine is a Panasonic too, though :) And still, I see the jaggies clearly on my screen as well as in the posted pictures. I think the difference is in the eye of the beholder, as I am mostly a PC gamer.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

It looks the same to me...



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As a simple experiment here's the difference between the 720p Mario from the emulator and how the same would look at 480p.

Process followed in Photoshop if anyone wants to verify:

  1. crop image
  2. resize down by 1/3rd proportionally, same factor as 720->480
  3. zoom up to 150%, grab image

The result on the right should be quite close to the Wii output, as the rescaling basically produced an Oversampling AA.

Even with the same 3D models, there's a lot of details that are brought up by the higher resolution (eyes, logo on the hat, mustache, gloves...)

Edit: sorry about the color tone change, it happened during the grab. Something to do with my color profile, I guess. Resizing in Photoshop up to original size again preserved the colors but produced a lot of artifacts due to the interpolation, thus why I resorted to zoom&grab.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Its kinda funny how some people dismiss anti-aliasing as nothing. Typical console mentality (slowly changing). It makes a massive difference not having jaggies everywhere. Rendering at 720P (or whatever it is) is quite a bit different from simply upscaling (blowing up) the original 480P. Now don't get me wrong, some flaws will be easier to see at higher rez, but as a whole this is very cool. It doesn't make Wii games comparable to anything on the HD twins, but it is a cool project to see with some fun results.



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AA makes a huge difference. It's why Dreamcast games looked significantly better than early PS2 games.

Either way, this is a nifty thing. There's nothing unethical about playing a Wii game you own on a PC, and, if the emulator works well enough, could be useful for times when you can't have a Wii around. Just think, playing Galaxy or Brawl on a long flight on your laptop.

Would be neat to see Nintendo release a Wii Plus that basically does this in hardware, but I'm not going to hold my breath, or cry when it doesn't come out.