Pfft....don't try and pull that sympathizer BS on me. PS360 games flop all the time. Lair, haze, Too Human, Unreal Tournament, Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, Valkyria Chronicles, etc. Don't try and make it seem like Wii games flopping means it doesn't happen on the HD consoles. You know it's people like you who believe that NO Wii game flops. Whether it sells1 or a million, it's always a success, no matter what the discussion

But let's look at those million sellers. Wii Fit/Play/Sports, Brawl, Super Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, etc. OMG the Gamecube must've been a monster console then. But wait, the other 3/4 are Carnival Games, Game Party, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Deca Sports, etc. And there's the old "niche" backup. MadWorld is niche, but DMC isn't? House of the Dead is niche, but L4D isn't? Get on somewhere. And once again, with the sympathizer crap. You think it was ok when Valkyria Chronicles was sitting around 300k for the longest time? How many gaming sites and even posters here said "Go out and buy this game"? Unless you consider that "if it's on the PS360, then it's ok".

Success on the Wii doesn't have to be a Nintendo franchise or a casual game....but those are the only games that are successes, for the most part. And I think a "supposed core game" should sell a lot more on the Wii. This entire generation, you've all been begging 3rd parties to "take the Wii more seriously" and "make real games, and not casual shovelware", yet when they finally do it, you don't go out and buy their games.

And btw, I don't consider success based on prodcution values. If a game cost $10 to make, and two people bought it for $50 each, the game is technically a success from your perspective. I consider success based on how many people are buying the game. What if Halo was the cheapest game ever made? If only a couple people bought it, would you consider it a success, even if it made Bungie a profit? Quit trying to act like your the publisher and act like the gamer, you know, the guy who wants to enjoy a game, and also wants other to enjoy a game. If you want to act like the publisher, then "My Horse and Me" is a success in your eyes

Edit: As stated by Torillian a while ago: "Wow, can you beat in your point any harder? Anyway I'd like to do a little experiment. I would like a single Nintendo fan to admit to a flop on the Wii. Any game, don't really care what, just admit that one game probably lost money. It seems we have this idea that HD games need a minimum of 500k sales to make a profit, but Wii games can be made off of 5 dollars and a Unicorn fart (a value of probably $3.68)"

Alright just before I continue I'll let you know who your messing with... any time you want to back out ya can.  Oh well go in this cocky and no warnings. 

Well obviously, first of all, the post was essentially a joke.  I mean I'd explain how it works as a joke but that kinda ruins it.  I mean when you see that kinda post your supposed to give a little chuckle and then move on your way.  Apparently Mr. serious internet goose needs to take things like its life over here.  Of course with that weak response maybe you should try the humor department more often. 

Now considering it was meant to be a joke it's hard for me to really respond based off my post to "what you call" a rebuttal.  But I'm a pretty smart guy so I'll give it a go. 

Sure many PS360 games have been called a flop.  You did an ok job at listing them... although still pretty pathetic in not including a lot of them but I'll let you off.  Lair, Haze, and Too Human were definitely the most prominent of the three (no one called the SRPG that is Valkyria Chronicles a flop unless they were a biased fanboy... guess it's hard to tell others when you are one yourself eh).  So what were the reasons for Lair, Haze, and Too Human being flops?  I'm pretty sure almost every last one of them being sales compared to how much it cost to make.  Actually the main argument against Too Human was it's collosal production value compared to how much the game sold. 

But of course, to you, which I've so generously bolded, earning more than how much it cost you to do it doesn't constitute success.  So not only does every business or coporation but generally every intellectual considers making more than you spent a success.  You on the other hand don't see it that way.  Sure we could measure the magnitude of success but that would just make us silly geese.  You consider how many people bought it to be a success.  So I'm sure Sony is over there right now exclaiming how much of a success the PS3 is even though they've lost billions in that department.  No big deal right... they've sold over 20 million to retailers so obviously it's a success... but let us first cut 16,000 jobs to show how successful we've been.

Aside from my humerous bantering... YOU'RE WRONG.  Soak it in because you set yourself up to be wrong just by responding to a joke so seriously.  You are so wrong, that I'm wondering what your education level is because this is simply word/definition association with some simply basic knowledge.  But I'm sure that's cool with you.

Now aside from that you go on to assume (once again from an obvious joke) that I think no game flops.  And that is so far from the truth that I will once again laugh at you (did seriously not read the name when you replied or do you really put the blind part in blind fanboy).  Now the rest of your response is you justr being a silly goose to my funny post.  I guess I see why Rol does this because childish responses like this really do make me laugh.  But I couldn't do it all day becaus such blatant hatred fueled by silly ignorance and misunderstanding sure does get on my nerves.  Get over yourself with that post because the only thing you proved is that I can write better than you, formulate and argument better than you, and apparently tell jokes better than you.  Now I suggest you go bakc to that first little sentence and wonder whether you should have heeded it or not.

OH no need Rol. I pretty much handed to him what he needed handed back haha. But it's the thought that counts so thx.

And since the 360 has been out the longest, it also has the largest amount of missing data. Stop putting so much emphasis on that graph, which relies too much on widely incomplete data, and stop posting it everywhere like it's absolute proof of anything. A lot of 360 games sold well, but have European data that was inserted instead of tracked through charting. As such, they don't contribute to the software total. This is also true for the other 2 consoles, but due to them being younger, it's not as rampant as it is for the 360. I'm not looking to ruin your amazing, flawless statistics, but don't lord it around everywhere,

On topic: Wii owners need to stop acting like they're the only ones being picked on. Wii owners always brag when a game sells best on the Wii, and they blame the HD consoles for companies going under.  Having your favorite console insulted is a part of life. Learn not to be so attached to your console, and you at least won't distort reality and believe that you and your console are victims. The PS3 and 360 are in deep competition because they're similar to each other, far more than the Wii is to either of the two consoles. As such, their main competition is with each other. HD fanboys don't want to hear about the Wii, and it's usually not their concern anyways. It's why they have so little respect for it. I see the PS3 and 360 trolled all the time, but I never, and I mean never, see HD fans complain that there is somehow hypocrisy in the market and they're the only ones being picked on or made fun of in any area. Wii owners place so much hope in these titles that are bound to sell below their expectations, and they brag about them endlessly. So why are they surprised that Wii haters make a big deal when they flop? If Bionic Commando flops, it's not a big deal. Nobody hyped it anyways.

We're reading the same forums right.  VGChartz eh.  Let me check to make sure my URL is right... yep you and I are at VGC. 

Though I do agree... if you hype something and it doesn't go to the hype... then of course there is going to be recoil... unless your Killzone 2 where the enormousness of the hype was so massive that not even a meteor striking the earth could have stopped it. 

But considering I like to speak above just petty fanboy fights where only things that are hyped deserve discussion of fail or success.  Of course I doubt most others on here ever take that into consideration.  But I do like the phrase implied... "only hyped games can fail" because apparently that seems to be the case.

Is there a hypocrisy, though, when it comes to consoles.  Probably not.  All get picked on but what they get picked on for generally is hypocritical.  Take it with just games themselves.  Halo 3 never gets picked on for the things that Haze got picked on... even though they have similar issues... especially if you read the Haze review first and then read the Halo 3 review.  Of course both get picked on but... but it is pretty easy to see the hypocrisy.

People need to stop looking at things so black and white.  Sure there is not a hypocrisy on who gets picked on... but most certainly on what they get targeted for.  You don't need me to tell you that now do you.  Which is why I would hope that most of us can get past that fanboy and media BS they feed us all the time and simply try to talk about things on a clear slate and go from there.  I can say that The Conduit didn't live up to the hyp (even after playing it) and because of the way it was hyped it probably deserves some of the things it is getting now.  But Madworld didn't deserve the outlash it got after it released.

I would simply hope that we could all talk on the same level of sales and games without so much self-interest coming in to affect it but I guess that's to hard to ask.  But considering your post,  I think you would agree Montana so thx for pointing it out.

I think that was a giant post agreeing with me. It was hard to make out what you were saying half the time. Either way, wahoo I guess.

Well yes that is what it was just amending a few points.

Post is too subjective to not be taken with anything less than a grain of salt.

I also wanted to bring to the attention of all who posted here that this is my first thread that broke triple digits! Thanks to all that posted..whether I agree with you or not!