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pearljammer on 16 June 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Citan said:
slowmo said:
xcot said:
slowmo said:
JRPG's are standing still with no innovation and the storylines are the same rehashed crap we've seen for the last 15 years recycled, it is no conincidence we have not had a AAA JRPG yet this generation. WRPG's for me show variety and they're all a bit different, look at the choices you're given in games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Fable 2, etc.

Apologies for slating your favourite genre to the JRPG fans, surely you guys must see that something needs to change in the genre if it is to survive in the long term?


Correction, we haven't had an AAA jrpg on consoles because the japanese like many western developers are caught up with graphics.

Where the DS s really innovating in RPGs.

Its has great S-jrpgs, normal jrpgs, unique jrpgs like pokemon and twewy etc.


No, they're just becoming stale and boring following the same generic story line with very little innovation of the genre.  Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 had great graphics and both provided innovations to their chosen genre, thats from a new IP and a existing IP under control of a new dev too.  If JRPG's don't start to evolve soon then they'll die out, the problem is gamers need to get the JRPG developers to understand this and they seemingly aren't listening.

Yer a funny fella. Tell me what`s so special with the story in me and fallout.

Does it compare to Xenosaga`s mix of:


Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

I think not, so before you judge Jrpg`s, read a book and check if there are any intertekstual references in your favourite wrpg`s. A good story is not easy to make. You have to be well read.

 

If you want to figure out why Mass Effects story is worlds beyond Final Fantasy, go buy the novels.

Do you get to choose the path of the story in the novel as well

I wouldn't think it'd be so difficult for people to appreciate that many people prefer their narative to be linear, focused and predetermined not unlike a novel.

@Stage and silicon: I gotta say, many of the cliche JRPGs do give this impression and are, in fact, just terrible. They are also quite numerous. But that doesn't mean that we should generalise an entire genre.



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Citan on 16 June 2009
Jereel Hunter said:
Citan said:

Story:

Jrpg`s are more storydriven, have deeper meanings and character-development.

If by "storydriven", you mean "linear" then this is true.

Art and graphics:

Jrpg`s have multiple genres. (Just like WRPGs) They are not afraid to combine humour with violence and sex and adult subjects

making the game more complex. (Just like WRPGs)

(Takashi Murakami`s concept of "Superflat") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superflat

Watching a CVG scene from i.e Final Fantasy compared to wow is huge difference.(Because the men look more like men than women) Characters looks more alive and have personality. (Someone has never seen WoW cinematics)

Gameplay:

This is a matter of taste in my opinion. No winner here. (Considering the bias of this post, you've essentially handed this, the most important category, over to WRPGs)

Music:

If it weren`t for the Final Fantasy series and Xenosaga it might be a

draw here, but Nobuo Uematsu changed the way we listen to music in video-games.

Online:

WoW, need I say more. A game that takes the prize for wrpg`s because it

capture so many players to play a game that isn`t a very good game. (Wow, a back-handed compliment to WoW, how surprising)

It`s all about the community. (And the gameplay, maybe? The vast content? The impressive soundtrack? The Epic world-changing storyline?)

Lasting appeal:

For how long would you actually spend time on a game? It depends on how much you like it

of course. But do you want to be addicted to games which seems to have no ending?(I like how the category is lasting appeal, but your question attempts to put a vastly superior amount of content/flexibility/replayability in a bad light. How about we flip the question? Do you want to play a game that becomes obsolete the moment you've finished it the first time?)

Or do you want a final goal which you can reach within 50-70 hours?

My favourite Jrpg`s:

Final Fantasy VI, Xenosaga, Xenogears, Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger.

My favourite wrpg`s:

Oblivion IV. (You've apparently never played Mass Effect. This entire post is basically cancelled by it, single-handedly.)

 

Ps:

Why do people get offended in a odd sort of way when I state that Jrpg`s have more soul and is more artistic than wrpg`s?. (I have no idea why people would get offended by your preference for retarded JRPGs with their severely outdated gameplay. Oh, I hope that didn't offend.)

 

I will comment one thing; The word retard. It`s hard to take you seriously when you say Jrpg`s are retarded. Retard is a typical english word used to comment something that`s different. And people that`s scared of something that`s different fails to get my attention....end



Jereel Hunter on 16 June 2009
Citan said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Citan said:

Story:

Jrpg`s are more storydriven, have deeper meanings and character-development.

If by "storydriven", you mean "linear" then this is true.

Art and graphics:

Jrpg`s have multiple genres. (Just like WRPGs) They are not afraid to combine humour with violence and sex and adult subjects

making the game more complex. (Just like WRPGs)

(Takashi Murakami`s concept of "Superflat") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superflat

Watching a CVG scene from i.e Final Fantasy compared to wow is huge difference.(Because the men look more like men than women) Characters looks more alive and have personality. (Someone has never seen WoW cinematics)

Gameplay:

This is a matter of taste in my opinion. No winner here. (Considering the bias of this post, you've essentially handed this, the most important category, over to WRPGs)

Music:

If it weren`t for the Final Fantasy series and Xenosaga it might be a

draw here, but Nobuo Uematsu changed the way we listen to music in video-games.

Online:

WoW, need I say more. A game that takes the prize for wrpg`s because it

capture so many players to play a game that isn`t a very good game. (Wow, a back-handed compliment to WoW, how surprising)

It`s all about the community. (And the gameplay, maybe? The vast content? The impressive soundtrack? The Epic world-changing storyline?)

Lasting appeal:

For how long would you actually spend time on a game? It depends on how much you like it

of course. But do you want to be addicted to games which seems to have no ending?(I like how the category is lasting appeal, but your question attempts to put a vastly superior amount of content/flexibility/replayability in a bad light. How about we flip the question? Do you want to play a game that becomes obsolete the moment you've finished it the first time?)

Or do you want a final goal which you can reach within 50-70 hours?

My favourite Jrpg`s:

Final Fantasy VI, Xenosaga, Xenogears, Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger.

My favourite wrpg`s:

Oblivion IV. (You've apparently never played Mass Effect. This entire post is basically cancelled by it, single-handedly.)

 

Ps:

Why do people get offended in a odd sort of way when I state that Jrpg`s have more soul and is more artistic than wrpg`s?. (I have no idea why people would get offended by your preference for retarded JRPGs with their severely outdated gameplay. Oh, I hope that didn't offend.)

I will comment one thing; The word retard. It`s hard to take you seriously when you say Jrpg`s are retarded. Retard is a typical english word used to comment something that`s different. And people that`s scared of something that`s different fails to get my attention....end

It wasn't meant as a real insult. I don't actually think that of JRPGs -  It was my way of making fun of the fact that he can't understand someone being offended by an insult.



Citan on 16 June 2009
silicon said:
Citan said:
silicon said:

JRPGs are soaps


WRPGs are hit tv shows and movies



Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

Is that what you call soap?

And I thought wrpg`s had freedom. When you watch a movie, you don`t have much freedom. Instead while you watch soaps you have the freedom to skip 10-15 episodes and still be able to catch up to the story.

So your statement fails in  my eyes.

 

Yeah, JRPGs are like soaps...

And WRPGs are like hit tv shows and movies.

 

Even without freedom WRPGs are still better then JRPGs... so I dunno what your point is...

I think you live in a small closed world.

 

"Get some, get some" - Crazy door gunner from Full Metal Jacket



Citan on 16 June 2009
Jereel Hunter said:
Citan said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Citan said:

Story:

Jrpg`s are more storydriven, have deeper meanings and character-development.

If by "storydriven", you mean "linear" then this is true.

Art and graphics:

Jrpg`s have multiple genres. (Just like WRPGs) They are not afraid to combine humour with violence and sex and adult subjects

making the game more complex. (Just like WRPGs)

(Takashi Murakami`s concept of "Superflat") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superflat

Watching a CVG scene from i.e Final Fantasy compared to wow is huge difference.(Because the men look more like men than women) Characters looks more alive and have personality. (Someone has never seen WoW cinematics)

Gameplay:

This is a matter of taste in my opinion. No winner here. (Considering the bias of this post, you've essentially handed this, the most important category, over to WRPGs)

Music:

If it weren`t for the Final Fantasy series and Xenosaga it might be a

draw here, but Nobuo Uematsu changed the way we listen to music in video-games.

Online:

WoW, need I say more. A game that takes the prize for wrpg`s because it

capture so many players to play a game that isn`t a very good game. (Wow, a back-handed compliment to WoW, how surprising)

It`s all about the community. (And the gameplay, maybe? The vast content? The impressive soundtrack? The Epic world-changing storyline?)

Lasting appeal:

For how long would you actually spend time on a game? It depends on how much you like it

of course. But do you want to be addicted to games which seems to have no ending?(I like how the category is lasting appeal, but your question attempts to put a vastly superior amount of content/flexibility/replayability in a bad light. How about we flip the question? Do you want to play a game that becomes obsolete the moment you've finished it the first time?)

Or do you want a final goal which you can reach within 50-70 hours?

My favourite Jrpg`s:

Final Fantasy VI, Xenosaga, Xenogears, Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger.

My favourite wrpg`s:

Oblivion IV. (You've apparently never played Mass Effect. This entire post is basically cancelled by it, single-handedly.)

 

Ps:

Why do people get offended in a odd sort of way when I state that Jrpg`s have more soul and is more artistic than wrpg`s?. (I have no idea why people would get offended by your preference for retarded JRPGs with their severely outdated gameplay. Oh, I hope that didn't offend.)

I will comment one thing; The word retard. It`s hard to take you seriously when you say Jrpg`s are retarded. Retard is a typical english word used to comment something that`s different. And people that`s scared of something that`s different fails to get my attention....end

It wasn't meant as a real insult. I don't actually think that of JRPGs -  It was my way of making fun of the fact that he can't understand someone being offended by an insult.

The question is: What am I insulting? People who have wrpg`s as a religon?



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S.T.A.G.E. on 16 June 2009
pearljammer said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Citan said:
slowmo said:
xcot said:
slowmo said:
JRPG's are standing still with no innovation and the storylines are the same rehashed crap we've seen for the last 15 years recycled, it is no conincidence we have not had a AAA JRPG yet this generation. WRPG's for me show variety and they're all a bit different, look at the choices you're given in games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Fable 2, etc.

Apologies for slating your favourite genre to the JRPG fans, surely you guys must see that something needs to change in the genre if it is to survive in the long term?


Correction, we haven't had an AAA jrpg on consoles because the japanese like many western developers are caught up with graphics.

Where the DS s really innovating in RPGs.

Its has great S-jrpgs, normal jrpgs, unique jrpgs like pokemon and twewy etc.


No, they're just becoming stale and boring following the same generic story line with very little innovation of the genre.  Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 had great graphics and both provided innovations to their chosen genre, thats from a new IP and a existing IP under control of a new dev too.  If JRPG's don't start to evolve soon then they'll die out, the problem is gamers need to get the JRPG developers to understand this and they seemingly aren't listening.

Yer a funny fella. Tell me what`s so special with the story in me and fallout.

Does it compare to Xenosaga`s mix of:


Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

I think not, so before you judge Jrpg`s, read a book and check if there are any intertekstual references in your favourite wrpg`s. A good story is not easy to make. You have to be well read.

 

If you want to figure out why Mass Effects story is worlds beyond Final Fantasy, go buy the novels.

Do you get to choose the path of the story in the novel as well

I wouldn't think it'd be so difficult for people to appreciate that many people prefer their narative to be linear, focused and predetermined not unlike a novel.

@Soap opera and WB tv comment: I gotta say, many of the cliche JRPGs do give this impression and are, in fact, just terrible. They are also quite numerous. But that doesn't mean that we should generalise an entire genre.

Mass Effect 2 is going to have far more choices and consequences than the first game. This means anyone could be lost. I cannot wait to play that f'n game!



Jereel Hunter on 16 June 2009
Citan said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Citan said:
Jereel Hunter said:

I will comment one thing; The word retard. It`s hard to take you seriously when you say Jrpg`s are retarded. Retard is a typical english word used to comment something that`s different. And people that`s scared of something that`s different fails to get my attention....end

It wasn't meant as a real insult. I don't actually think that of JRPGs -  It was my way of making fun of the fact that he can't understand someone being offended by an insult.

The question is: What am I insulting? People who have wrpg`s as a religon?

You are insulting the developers of WRPGs like Mass Effect who's games have every bit as much "soul" and artistic merit as anything classed a JRPG, and in turn, their fans.



pearljammer on 16 June 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
pearljammer said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Citan said:
slowmo said:
xcot said:
slowmo said:
JRPG's are standing still with no innovation and the storylines are the same rehashed crap we've seen for the last 15 years recycled, it is no conincidence we have not had a AAA JRPG yet this generation. WRPG's for me show variety and they're all a bit different, look at the choices you're given in games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Fable 2, etc.

Apologies for slating your favourite genre to the JRPG fans, surely you guys must see that something needs to change in the genre if it is to survive in the long term?


Correction, we haven't had an AAA jrpg on consoles because the japanese like many western developers are caught up with graphics.

Where the DS s really innovating in RPGs.

Its has great S-jrpgs, normal jrpgs, unique jrpgs like pokemon and twewy etc.


No, they're just becoming stale and boring following the same generic story line with very little innovation of the genre.  Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 had great graphics and both provided innovations to their chosen genre, thats from a new IP and a existing IP under control of a new dev too.  If JRPG's don't start to evolve soon then they'll die out, the problem is gamers need to get the JRPG developers to understand this and they seemingly aren't listening.

Yer a funny fella. Tell me what`s so special with the story in me and fallout.

Does it compare to Xenosaga`s mix of:


Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

I think not, so before you judge Jrpg`s, read a book and check if there are any intertekstual references in your favourite wrpg`s. A good story is not easy to make. You have to be well read.

 

If you want to figure out why Mass Effects story is worlds beyond Final Fantasy, go buy the novels.

Do you get to choose the path of the story in the novel as well

I wouldn't think it'd be so difficult for people to appreciate that many people prefer their narative to be linear, focused and predetermined not unlike a novel.

@Soap opera and WB tv comment: I gotta say, many of the cliche JRPGs do give this impression and are, in fact, just terrible. They are also quite numerous. But that doesn't mean that we should generalise an entire genre.

Mass Effect 2 is going to have far more choices and consequences than the first game. This means anyone could be lost. I cannot wait to play that f'n game!

Huh. Did you quote the wrong person?



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 June 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
pearljammer said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Citan said:
slowmo said:
xcot said:
slowmo said:
JRPG's are standing still with no innovation and the storylines are the same rehashed crap we've seen for the last 15 years recycled, it is no conincidence we have not had a AAA JRPG yet this generation. WRPG's for me show variety and they're all a bit different, look at the choices you're given in games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Fable 2, etc.

Apologies for slating your favourite genre to the JRPG fans, surely you guys must see that something needs to change in the genre if it is to survive in the long term?


Correction, we haven't had an AAA jrpg on consoles because the japanese like many western developers are caught up with graphics.

Where the DS s really innovating in RPGs.

Its has great S-jrpgs, normal jrpgs, unique jrpgs like pokemon and twewy etc.


No, they're just becoming stale and boring following the same generic story line with very little innovation of the genre.  Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 had great graphics and both provided innovations to their chosen genre, thats from a new IP and a existing IP under control of a new dev too.  If JRPG's don't start to evolve soon then they'll die out, the problem is gamers need to get the JRPG developers to understand this and they seemingly aren't listening.

Yer a funny fella. Tell me what`s so special with the story in me and fallout.

Does it compare to Xenosaga`s mix of:


Robots, Science Fiction, 12-year old girls in swimsuits, Drama, action, comedy, sex, philosophy, love, hate, friendship and intertekstual references to Friedrich Nietzsche`s subjects, Carl Gustav Jung`s Analytical psychology, The Bibel, Jewish religion, German history and novels, Anime.

 

I think not, so before you judge Jrpg`s, read a book and check if there are any intertekstual references in your favourite wrpg`s. A good story is not easy to make. You have to be well read.

 

If you want to figure out why Mass Effects story is worlds beyond Final Fantasy, go buy the novels.

Do you get to choose the path of the story in the novel as well

I wouldn't think it'd be so difficult for people to appreciate that many people prefer their narative to be linear, focused and predetermined not unlike a novel.

@Soap opera and WB tv comment: I gotta say, many of the cliche JRPGs do give this impression and are, in fact, just terrible. They are also quite numerous. But that doesn't mean that we should generalise an entire genre.

Mass Effect 2 is going to have far more choices and consequences than the first game. Yes, the story was so good that they made a novel out of it. The difference between the game and the story is that it is your universe. This means anyone could be lost and anything can happen. I cannot wait to play that f'n game!

 



Citan on 16 June 2009
Jereel Hunter said:
Citan said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Citan said:
Jereel Hunter said:

I will comment one thing; The word retard. It`s hard to take you seriously when you say Jrpg`s are retarded. Retard is a typical english word used to comment something that`s different. And people that`s scared of something that`s different fails to get my attention....end

It wasn't meant as a real insult. I don't actually think that of JRPGs -  It was my way of making fun of the fact that he can't understand someone being offended by an insult.

The question is: What am I insulting? People who have wrpg`s as a religon?

You are insulting the developers of WRPGs like Mass Effect who's games have every bit as much "soul" and artistic merit as anything classed a JRPG, and in turn, their fans.

Guess this is not having more soul and artistic merit than wrpg`s then:

 

http://www.hirokiazuma.com/en/texts/superflat_en1.html

 

Yes, it`s comparable. Just read the whole text and you might understand what I mean. I can be of help if you don`t :)