By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - PC - Windows 7 will not include Internet Explorer in EU markets.

Blaze said:
WereKitten said:
Blaze said:

The only intervention from the governement in the terms of business is none...  everything that has to do with government and business the government fails at... (this is from a US government view).

What do you mean by the community tho? Are we talking about the common folk or the rich or the poor or the businesses themselves?

It doesn't really seem to me that the US government has been abstaining from direct intervention in the market due to ideological stances, lately (GM, anyone?). And even the US have such thing as anti-trust legislation.

As for the community i talked of, I said that it's the one the governments are meant to represent and defend the interests of. In the case of the US I assume it's made of all the citizens as equal.

sort  of but the "community" is way to big and made of way to many views for the government to represent them all.

yeah US messed up big with GM... i mean i now own part of GM so i guess i should get a free car... or with AIG i should get free insurance since i already pay them...

So if one company has a majority then it is no longer a free market?  Is that the definition of free market?  The best part about companys being greedy and abusive is that even when a company has a strangle hold there are other companys greedy as hell trying to take it away.

How do you know people will not buy a new OS that is better then all the rest?   That to me sounds like "well we can not beat them so we might as well break them down till we can beat them."

 I guess i believe more in the power of the people then in the power of the government.. if people really (other then us tech nerds) had a problem with what microsoft did and is doing then they would have done something about it.  You can't punish people for finding success and reward people for failing... (/beginsarcasm unless your the US government /endsarcasm)

Great post...



Around the Network
Blaze said:

sort  of but the "community" is way to big and made of way to many views for the government to represent them all.

yeah US messed up big with GM... i mean i now own part of GM so i guess i should get a free car... or with AIG i should get free insurance since i already pay them...

So if one company has a majority then it is no longer a free market?  Is that the definition of free market?  The best part about companys being greedy and abusive is that even when a company has a strangle hold there are other companys greedy as hell trying to take it away.

How do you know people will not buy a new OS that is better then all the rest?   That to me sounds like "well we can not beat them so we might as well break them down till we can beat them."

 I guess i believe more in the power of the people then in the power of the government.. if people really (other then us tech nerds) had a problem with what microsoft did and is doing then they would have done something about it.  You can't punish people for finding success and reward people for failing... (/beginsarcasm unless your the US government /endsarcasm)

And again, yours sound like an ideological position, rather than a pragmatic approach.

There's nothing sacred in the "free market", a purity that should be protected from any intervention. The free market from the point of view of the general interest that a government is supposed to care about is a tool to provide practical, positive effects. When it doesn't seem to work in that way, it must be kicked into working.

The rest of your post again is about believing. In particular that consumers will always drive the market towards the optimal direction for them. That fails to recognize the reality of things like exploitation of monopolistic positions, the power of marketing, illicit business practices. All of which decouple the quality of an offer the market made to the customer from the chance the customer will accept that offer.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

WereKitten said:
DirtyP2002 said:

Halo ODST will include a free multiplayer-beta for Halo Reach. MS needs to include a multiplayer beta for 3rd parties as well according to this. :D

This is sooo stupid. I can't believe MS is not allowed to offer something for FREE. You can transfer this to a lot of other products. So a Playstation bundle with Killzone 2 is not allowed either, because the customer won't try other games/shooters. This is more or less the same thing.

No, it isn't.

- MS starting point is a dominating position on the OS market. This makes them subject to extra scrutiny to make sure that this position doesn't transfer to limited competition in other related markets, say the browsers' one. If MS had a 5% market share for OSs, this would be a moot point.

- A game is not meant to be a substitute for all other games. A browser is meant to substitute competing browsers in everything, forever.


okay, what about iPod and iTunes?



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

disolitude said:
Blaze said:
WereKitten said:
Blaze said:

The only intervention from the governement in the terms of business is none...  everything that has to do with government and business the government fails at... (this is from a US government view).

What do you mean by the community tho? Are we talking about the common folk or the rich or the poor or the businesses themselves?

It doesn't really seem to me that the US government has been abstaining from direct intervention in the market due to ideological stances, lately (GM, anyone?). And even the US have such thing as anti-trust legislation.

As for the community i talked of, I said that it's the one the governments are meant to represent and defend the interests of. In the case of the US I assume it's made of all the citizens as equal.

sort  of but the "community" is way to big and made of way to many views for the government to represent them all.

yeah US messed up big with GM... i mean i now own part of GM so i guess i should get a free car... or with AIG i should get free insurance since i already pay them...

So if one company has a majority then it is no longer a free market?  Is that the definition of free market?  The best part about companys being greedy and abusive is that even when a company has a strangle hold there are other companys greedy as hell trying to take it away.

How do you know people will not buy a new OS that is better then all the rest?   That to me sounds like "well we can not beat them so we might as well break them down till we can beat them."

 I guess i believe more in the power of the people then in the power of the government.. if people really (other then us tech nerds) had a problem with what microsoft did and is doing then they would have done something about it.  You can't punish people for finding success and reward people for failing... (/beginsarcasm unless your the US government /endsarcasm)

Great post...

I second. Long live capitalism!



What are you looking at, nerd?
DirtyP2002 said:
WereKitten said:
DirtyP2002 said:

Halo ODST will include a free multiplayer-beta for Halo Reach. MS needs to include a multiplayer beta for 3rd parties as well according to this. :D

This is sooo stupid. I can't believe MS is not allowed to offer something for FREE. You can transfer this to a lot of other products. So a Playstation bundle with Killzone 2 is not allowed either, because the customer won't try other games/shooters. This is more or less the same thing.

No, it isn't.

- MS starting point is a dominating position on the OS market. This makes them subject to extra scrutiny to make sure that this position doesn't transfer to limited competition in other related markets, say the browsers' one. If MS had a 5% market share for OSs, this would be a moot point.

- A game is not meant to be a substitute for all other games. A browser is meant to substitute competing browsers in everything, forever.


okay, what about iPod and iTunes?

What about it? I'm sorry but I'm ignorant about the state of their interaction and the way they treat DRM.

I tangentially know that most music programs used under Linux - including the one I'm most familiar with - can sync with iPods, and that other pieces of hardware can work with iTunes.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Around the Network
Blaze said:
WereKitten said:
Blaze said:

The only intervention from the governement in the terms of business is none...  everything that has to do with government and business the government fails at... (this is from a US government view).

What do you mean by the community tho? Are we talking about the common folk or the rich or the poor or the businesses themselves?

It doesn't really seem to me that the US government has been abstaining from direct intervention in the market due to ideological stances, lately (GM, anyone?). And even the US have such thing as anti-trust legislation.

As for the community i talked of, I said that it's the one the governments are meant to represent and defend the interests of. In the case of the US I assume it's made of all the citizens as equal.

sort  of but the "community" is way to big and made of way to many views for the government to represent them all.

yeah US messed up big with GM... i mean i now own part of GM so i guess i should get a free car... or with AIG i should get free insurance since i already pay them...

So if one company has a majority then it is no longer a free market?  Is that the definition of free market?  The best part about companys being greedy and abusive is that even when a company has a strangle hold there are other companys greedy as hell trying to take it away.

How do you know people will not buy a new OS that is better then all the rest?   That to me sounds like "well we can not beat them so we might as well break them down till we can beat them."

 I guess i believe more in the power of the people then in the power of the government.. if people really (other then us tech nerds) had a problem with what microsoft did and is doing then they would have done something about it.  You can't punish people for finding success and reward people for failing... (/beginsarcasm unless your the US government /endsarcasm)

Sorry, and where does the Government come from in the United States? It's a democracy... isn't it?

---

The free market is flawed in principle, anyway. The idea of the free market is to try and achieve allocative efficiency of resources through the use of the price mechanism - and the price mechanism is where the free market fails. Price is usually costs to firm + profit, and it settles down at a reasonable level depending on the level of supply and demand of a good, but it doesn't factor in outside costs that the firm doesn't have to pay.

These outside costs are called negative externalities, and these could be, for example, the emission of carbon dioxide from production - firms don't pay for these emissions, and so they aren't factored in the cost of production, and so the good is being sold at a price lower than what it should be - meaning that allocative efficiency hasn't been reached, so the free market fails.

What the free market needs, and is starting to get, is Government intervention - through things like pollution permits and extra taxation, firms are starting to have to pay for these negative externalities, and that is resulting in the markets getting ever closer to allocative efficiency.

---

Also, the free market would be much more effective in pre-14th amendment conditions, which granted corporations too much power. Before the 14th Amendment corporations were very limited in what they could do, they couldn't buy out other corporations, they could only do what their charter allowed them to do (say, making baskets), and corporations weren't around indefinitely - they were usually closed after they had served their function (corporation to build a bridge, or something). The 14th amendment, as most should know, was designed to give people (notably black ex-slaves) more rights, ans corporations managed to bring in that they were indeed, legal persons, and as such, they were able to dramatically increase their rights.



So, instead of Windows with built-in IE, will Microsoft sell Windows with built-in IE distributive/downloader? Huge difference, lol :D



I think Microsoft should be able to do anything it wants with its OS.



I'd like to know what every one's last IE use was... Some of your statements show that some of you haven't used IE since 6.1... and someone linking an article from 2004? We have already seen that it is unnecessary to force this issue when someone forces Microsoft back with ingenuity they gain market share without having to rely on government intervention



Cueil said:
I'd like to know what every one's last IE use was... Some of your statements show that some of you haven't used IE since 6.1... and someone linking an article from 2004? We have already seen that it is unnecessary to force this issue when someone forces Microsoft back with ingenuity they gain market share without having to rely on government intervention

Were it not for Firefox, I'd be using Internet Explorer.  

It's the only browser with plugins that come close to adequately matching Firefox's No Script/Ad Block capability and it's even better than Firefox in memory handling (particularly with flash elements).  Internet Explorer 6 is junk, but 7 and up are pretty spiffy.