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Forums - PC - Windows 7 will not include Internet Explorer in EU markets.

Jereel Hunter on 12 June 2009
NJ5 said:
Jereel Hunter said:
SamuelRSmith said:
I can't see how anyone could be in support of Microsoft for this. Microsoft are abusing their position in the Operating System market to gain in the browser market - that's anti-competitive behaviour.

You may be thinking "so what, they're free products" - but there's financial gain to be had from the browser market - why else do you think that Microsoft is acting in the way it is? Browsers gain revenue from people using the search bars in the corner, and it can also act as a way for Microsoft to push their own search and online services - more anti-competitive behaviour.

Microsoft also use the Windows-IE lock to try and create an IE-Windows lock. The more consumers get adjusted to Windows apps the less likely they are to go for alternative Operating Systems.

Microsoft's forced-monopoly in the browser market has led to a stagnation in the advancement of the web. What's the point in following web standards and embracing new web technologies if the market leading browser doesn't utilise them.

Anything a company does in order to gain an upper-hand over competition is "anti-competitive". MS gives away a browser for free, and it's bundled. Anyone that is against MS doesn't have a valid reason. You like a browser? download it. It's that easy. Download it with the freely installed IE. All those people that don't know enough to download another browser? Why should they simply not have one? The browsers are all freely available. And a browser like firefox is doing fine against IE. There's no reason to restrict a free option for people.

Let me put it this way. Remember when Nintendo had a monopoly of the handheld gaming market?

What would happen if Nintendo had bundled a "free" Nintendo 64 with each gameboy that they sold... That would practically give them domination of the console market by extension. It would be anti-competitive behavior too, and I'm sure that Sony and Sega would have made a lot of noise back then.

The situation with the browsers is analogous... the only difference is a browser is cheaper to make and distribute than a console, so it's easier for MS to pull off this trick.

 

That's not a valid analogy. What would make it a valid analogy would be if someone could turn on that free N64, and use it to order a free Sega or Sony system. And that scenario, while guaranteeing Ninentdo dominance, would have been all aces for the comsumer. Just like the free IE can be used to DL firefox or Chrome.



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DirtyP2002 on 12 June 2009

Halo ODST will include a free multiplayer-beta for Halo Reach. MS needs to include a multiplayer beta for 3rd parties as well according to this. :D

This is sooo stupid. I can't believe MS is not allowed to offer something for FREE. You can transfer this to a lot of other products. So a Playstation bundle with Killzone 2 is not allowed either, because the customer won't try other games/shooters. This is more or less the same thing.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

NJ5 on 12 June 2009
Jereel Hunter said:
NJ5 said:

Let me put it this way. Remember when Nintendo had a monopoly of the handheld gaming market?

What would happen if Nintendo had bundled a "free" Nintendo 64 with each gameboy that they sold... That would practically give them domination of the console market by extension. It would be anti-competitive behavior too, and I'm sure that Sony and Sega would have made a lot of noise back then.

The situation with the browsers is analogous... the only difference is a browser is cheaper to make and distribute than a console, so it's easier for MS to pull off this trick.

 

That's not a valid analogy. What would make it a valid analogy would be if someone could turn on that free N64, and use it to order a free Sega or Sony system. And that scenario, while guaranteeing Ninentdo dominance, would have been all aces for the comsumer. Just like the free IE can be used to DL firefox or Chrome.

OK I think that's taking the analogy too far and it breaks. The core of the issue is Microsoft using its OS dominance to attempt browser dominance (and sooner or later probably to attempt search engine dominance as well).

The US antitrust regulators have also been on MS's ass for the same exact thing before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

scottie on 12 June 2009
superchunk said:
slimeattack said:
Superchunk, when it comes to MS, this makes sense. In case you didn't know, the EU has been trying since a few months to make MS include a "ballot box" for browsers in Windows (so that a person installing Windows could choose whether to install IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari and/or Chrome, choosing one as the default one). It was a threat to MS that it would once and for all kill IE domination, so now MS has preempted the Commission and said there won't be IE on Windows, unless[i/] someone actually wants it (the consumer or the hardware maker). It will be interesting to see the Commission's reaction to this.

That's stupid. MS should be able to give away free versions of any of its products with any other product. The only crime would be to inhibit the use of anyone else's product.

MS's reaction is the best one, all or none, fine none. However if you would like you can instal IE from the disc provided. Makes a lot more sense on given the commisions stupid position.

That's like saying Sony can't bundle GT without offering some 3rd party racing game as a choice instead. It just makes no sense.

Funny you should say that

 

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic15137.html

Properties of IE

Installed on your computer without consent

Runs in the background without you opening it

Requires a lot of effort or a special program to delete it

Is required by MS for updating your computer (if you're using XP at least)

 

Compare that with your average malware

Installed on your computer without consent

Runs in the background without you opening it

Requires a lot of effort or a special program to delete it

Is NOT required by MS for updating your computer

 

All windows based computers load certain parts of IE into the ram at startup, hence reducing the amount of ram available for other programs. This cannot be stooped simply by making another browser your default browser. MS had a chance to play nice, and they blew it. I'm sorry superchunk, MS doesn't love you as much as you love them.

 



Jereel Hunter on 12 June 2009
NJ5 said:
Jereel Hunter said:
NJ5 said:

Let me put it this way. Remember when Nintendo had a monopoly of the handheld gaming market?

What would happen if Nintendo had bundled a "free" Nintendo 64 with each gameboy that they sold... That would practically give them domination of the console market by extension. It would be anti-competitive behavior too, and I'm sure that Sony and Sega would have made a lot of noise back then.

The situation with the browsers is analogous... the only difference is a browser is cheaper to make and distribute than a console, so it's easier for MS to pull off this trick.

 

That's not a valid analogy. What would make it a valid analogy would be if someone could turn on that free N64, and use it to order a free Sega or Sony system. And that scenario, while guaranteeing Ninentdo dominance, would have been all aces for the comsumer. Just like the free IE can be used to DL firefox or Chrome.

OK I think that's taking the analogy too far and it breaks. The core of the issue is Microsoft using its OS dominance to attempt browser dominance (and sooner or later probably to attempt search engine dominance as well).

The US antitrust regulators have also been on MS's ass for the same exact thing before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

 

No see, the analogy was broken to begin with. Microsoft is giving away something free in a market where all options are free. They are just able to have 100% coverage, which is considered unfair.

As for the US antitrust issues, in the end, the only thing they were required to do was give others access to the OS-APIs that MS has always had access to. (I would agree that this was very anti-competitive) They realized, however, that there wasn't a legal basis for restricting the bundling MS does.



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NJ5 on 12 June 2009

@scottie: Your post just made me think of something... Aren't certain downloads at Microsoft's site only accessible with ActiveX stuff, which only runs in IE?

Unless they have fixed that, people will have to get IE anyway, which makes this E version even more useless.



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nordlead on 12 June 2009

I'm waiting for the outrage of average users who can't find the internet with windows 7




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NJ5 on 12 June 2009
Jereel Hunter said:

No see, the analogy was broken to begin with. Microsoft is giving away something free in a market where all options are free. They are just able to have 100% coverage, which is considered unfair.

As for the US antitrust issues, in the end, the only thing they were required to do was give others access to the OS-APIs that MS has always had access to. (I would agree that this was very anti-competitive) They realized, however, that there wasn't a legal basis for restricting the bundling MS does.

They're free to download, but they give the involved companies a profit. Mozilla gets money from Google for the searches coming from Firefox, and Microsoft obviously makes money from its search. So instead of paying upfront you're paying by watching advertisements later.

Were it not for these continued lawsuits from antitrust regulators, Microsoft would probably rule a great percentage of the software market, and on their way to dominate even more.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 on 12 June 2009
nordlead said:
I'm waiting for the outrage of average users who can't find the internet with windows 7

It's not gonna happen, because the version of windows 7 without IE will probably not even be found at most stores...

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

scottie on 12 June 2009

@ NJ5 - Perhaps they shall fix their website hen they release 7

@ nordlead - I believe most hardware vendors will preinstall their OS of choice