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Forums - Gaming - Team Ico series has overtaken Zelda as greatest adventure series!! By MM.2.

Not a chance..... Sorry.




Nintendo still doomed?
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Nintendo ID: Mako91                  3DS code: 4167-4543-6089

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BengaBenga said:
lol. I always have to laugh about your threads. Your humour is amazing. Maybe you have to be Dutch to understand...

Anyway: Zelda is simply much better gameplay wise. But the Zelda series is probably the best game series there is. But the two "Ico" games really touch on an emotional level, which is a major accomplishment and I can't wait to play Last Guardian.

Thank you sir, RPG Historian has spoken. The last guardian is my most anticipated game for 2010!



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Torillian said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
Because a reviewer has probably played both, Zelda selling more than Ico could be for all kinds of reason. People never heard of Ico but Zelda got advertising, perhaps Ico was released in a more crowded genre at the time than Zelda was. If a review scores one better than the other they are thinking about how the game compares to all others, your random consumer doesn't think that way, they just want to get what they saw on TV or heard about from a friend.

There are far too many things that affect sales for it to be a reasonable measure of quality.


But that is still opinion, if I played both and I found one to be better, that would be opinion, not fact, again a reviewer gives their opinion on a game, if I get shown a game by a friend, that is an opinion I am recieving, but when I buy one game and not the other, that is showing that I prefer one game over another and when a game sells more than another, that shows that the market preferred the game that sold more.

How can you liken comparing the sales of Zelda and ICo to you buying one game and not the other after being shown both.  First of all these games weren't even made at the same time period, how exactly did people buying Zelda make a choice between Ico and Zelda when Ico didn't exist yet?  Second, all the other things I said are wrong with your comparison.

Ah but you can see in recent Zelda's outselling Ico, that the market still prefers Zelda to team Ico, Windwaker outsold Ico, twilignt princess outsold shadow of the collosus, see your argument is flawed in that you fail to understand that reviews are merely an opinion, and opinions differ, when the market chooses one game over another your have the makret preference being revealed and sales are the objecitve measure of that preference



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Agree, the Zelda series is getting worse and worse.



Avinash_Tyagi said:

Not really since the order of the dates is arbitrary, can you prove that yesterday occured before today, can you even prove that there was a yesterday?

But your point is flawed, I can show that 1 million is more than 1 hndred thousand, right here right now, bring me 1 million dollars and 1 hundred thosand dollars, and I will show you which pile is bigger (and then i'll keep the piles, for recored purposes, of course)

The order of dates is not arbitrary. We defined dates so that we can always say which one comes before or after another. The fact that they map physical of philosophical entities is irrelevant to this discussion, we just need to accept the same convention to perform logic on them.

But you're going further and further into hostile territory. Stick to the Stephen King example and tell me that you think that the bestsellers' top 10 maps the quality of the literary work.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

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and market preference has nothing to do with quality in general. Yes reviews are opinions, but aggregate those all together and you have something that's probably around the quality of the actual game for most reasonable people.

You also keep ignoring the flaws with your comparing sales to quality. What about the fact that Zelda got more marketting, or that Zelda was a more established franchise when Ico came out, or the difference between available games on the PS2 and Gamecube that might make one more likely to notice a new Zelda than notice Ico on the PS2? All of these things affect sales, and you just ignore them and look at two numbers and denote one as better than the other.



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Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry, but saying a game is better is purely subjective, one person may love Ico and another may hate it, so yes I am implying that sales and profits are the only important measures of a game, because it is objective, a game either sells a certain amount or it doesn't, it either makes a profit or it doesn't

I would say that's it's how much the game is revered among the people who have played it moreso than it is simply how much it has sold.

A difficult thing to measure, I'm sure, but the correlation between sales and quality isn't near strong enough to talk in absolutes, as mentioned already by werekitten.

If we were to do so, Mariah Carey's Music Box would be considered better than every single Beatles album.

OT: I agree with Benga, this thread is pretty damn funny.



WereKitten said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Not really since the order of the dates is arbitrary, can you prove that yesterday occured before today, can you even prove that there was a yesterday?

But your point is flawed, I can show that 1 million is more than 1 hndred thousand, right here right now, bring me 1 million dollars and 1 hundred thosand dollars, and I will show you which pile is bigger (and then i'll keep the piles, for recored purposes, of course)

The order of dates is not arbitrary. We defined dates so that we can always say which one comes before or after another. The fact that they map physical of philosophical entities is irrelevant to this discussion, we just need to accept the same convention to perform logic on them.

But you're going further and further into hostile territory. Stick to the Stephen King example and tell me that you think that the bestsellers' top 10 maps the quality of the literary work.

I don't read stephen King so I can't comment personally, obviously the market likes King's books

Actually our definition of dates is arbitrary, because you cannot take me to see yesterday, or even prove that there was a yesterday, we have created an arbitrary system to work within the confines of what we refer to as memory.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Torillian said:
and market preference has nothing to do with quality in general. Yes reviews are opinions, but aggregate those all together and you have something that's probably around the quality of the actual game for most reasonable people.

You also keep ignoring the flaws with your comparing sales to quality. What about the fact that Zelda got more marketting, or that Zelda was a more established franchise when Ico came out, or the difference between available games on the PS2 and Gamecube that might make one more likely to notice a new Zelda than notice Ico on the PS2? All of these things affect sales, and you just ignore them and look at two numbers and denote one as better than the other.

No, because many Wii games get poor reviews but are bought in the millions, you are assuming that the reviewers opinion is reasonable, when in fact as the market showm they are often the odd men out when it comes to the Wii.

Ah but when Zelda first came out there was no established franchise and yet it sold, if Ico didn't get marketing well that probably shows they didn't have any faith in Ico.

 

Ok lets take Wii and PS3 and 360 as an example, 360 and PS3 both had marketing and even came out before or at the same time as Wii, yet Wii thundered ahead, even as reviewers argued that Wii was not as good as 360 and PS3, but the fact is the market preferred Wii and Wii has dominated to this day



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
and market preference has nothing to do with quality in general. Yes reviews are opinions, but aggregate those all together and you have something that's probably around the quality of the actual game for most reasonable people.

You also keep ignoring the flaws with your comparing sales to quality. What about the fact that Zelda got more marketting, or that Zelda was a more established franchise when Ico came out, or the difference between available games on the PS2 and Gamecube that might make one more likely to notice a new Zelda than notice Ico on the PS2? All of these things affect sales, and you just ignore them and look at two numbers and denote one as better than the other.

No, because many Wii games get poor reviews but are bought in the millions, you are assuming that the reviewers opinion is reasonable, when in fact as the market showm they are often the odd men out when it comes to the Wii.

Ah but when Zelda first came out there was no established franchise and yet it sold, if Ico didn't get marketing well that probably shows they didn't have any faith in Ico.

 

Ok lets take Wii and PS3 and 360 as an example, 360 and PS3 both had marketing and even came out before or at the same time as Wii, yet Wii thundered ahead, even as reviewers argued that Wii was not as good as 360 and PS3, but the fact is the market preferred Wii and Wii has dominated to this day

Which is all fact, but then you take the logic leap that this means that the Wii is better.  What about the price at launch, the Wii's popularity among talk shows?  There are always a plethora of things that affect sales that have nothing to do with quality.



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