Power Glove? Nintendo expanded userbase first, so Sony was able to successfully release EyeToy :P See what I've done? Used your logic to prove my point.

Concerning your other statements. Here's a fairly simple example, which should make it clear what wrong with your points. Who's responsible for exploration of the Americas? Norse of Columbus? Even if you'll say Norse, what about native Americans who "explored" the Americas before Norse? You're arguing over wrong thing. The only thing that matters - who brought public awareness of the Americas. Definitely Columbus. Use the same logic here - d-pad and motion-controls are Nintendo achievements (read below, clearly stated by tuoyo). Speaking of online, a lot of consoles since 80s were "online capable" (not necessarily multiplayer online) one way or another, a whole bunch of console manufactures experimented with online (not to mention PC, which is still superior to consoles comparing userbase that plays online), but  I'd say Sega and Microsoft deserved fame to be named as Columbus of online play on consoles. Dreamcast and Xbox made it right, successfully launched true online-capable consoles (sadly enough it didn't help Sega).

CD is more of a technology leap. The only thing it brought - games that are heavy on CGI, which's not a bad thing on its own account, but hardly could be translated into gameplay innovation. The best analogy - today's use of DVD (X360) and BD (PS3) for games. Do games on BDs are significantly better than games on DVDs? No. Do "more space" translates into "better games"? No. As we have already learned only CGI-heavy games (Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon etc.) are being published on several DVDs - this's the only annoyance when playing games on DVD instead of BD. Use the same logic back in those days when CD came out. People keep telling me that N64 lost because it used cartridges instead of CDs. I d'say Ninetendo f*cked up badly because of several reasons (as if people are saying that PS3 only lost beacuse of it's price point). Games on N64 didn't suffer because of cartridge use, the only thing that PS1 usually had and N64 didn't - CGI. N64 cartridges were considered previous generation technology compared to hi-tech CDs by mass user who wasn't well into technology and wasn't aware of the fact that if throw away all CGI - game easily fits on cartridge. So I'd say - a buzz, marketing, PR - that's what damaged N64 most if we're talking about how CDs influenced console war, but not lack of CD technology itself (and maybe one more reason - CDs are significantly cheaper to make than cartridges). Clearly not a problem speaking about DVD vs BD comparison, mass user usually can't see a big difference between them, maybe, due it's similar form-factor... I assume it's safe to say now, that manufacturer wasn't able to explain "advantage" of using BD-games instead of DVD-games to mass user, i.e. this time PR campaign wasn't successful enough.

There's barely anything that is new under the sun.  Nintendo are a videogame company not a technology company so they are not going to be inventing things that have never ever been seen on earth.  The reason they are credited with things is cause they are the ones that generally first implement something successfully into console gaming.  For example:

- Atari if I recall used a joy stick but NES used a D-Pad.  When Sega released their console what kind of controller did it have?  One with a D-Pad.

- SNES had shoulder buttons.  When PS released what did it have?  You guessed it shoulder buttons.

- The N64 had a 3-d joystick the PS did not.  Further down the line what did Sony do?  It changed the PS controlles to have joystiks.

- The N64 had a rumble pack.  What do controllers now have (which Sony claimed was last gen)?  Rumble technology.

- The Wii has motion controls.  What are Sony and Microsoft falling over themselves to make a big part of their consoles?  Motion controls.

There are many more similar examples I can't be bothered to think of now.

Whenever someone points to Nintendo's innovation, someone else will quickly try to belittle those. You tell us that because technology existed before, those weren't innovations. I disagree with that. While a lot of that technology existed before, the innovation lies in its usage. Also, I want to mention that in my understanding something isn't innovative if it's something obvious.

The analog stick is way older than the N64. It has been used when the gaming industry was still in its very early infancy. It has been abandoned because the D-pad was the superior control method for mostly 2D games back then. Nintendo used the analog stick* for 3D games and showed that it is the superior control method for this type of games, which was a brilliant move that wasn't obvious like it may seem from today's point of view. But the fact alone that the Playstation didn't have an analog stick (from the start) even though a lot of 3D games were made for it shows that Nintendo thought outside the box.

Eye toy did motion controls first, long before the Wiimote was born. And the Wiimote includes technology that existed before and was used in non gaming products. But the gaming expirience that the Wiimote offers is totally new. You can't compare playing Golf or Tennis with the Wiimote to playing the games that use the Eye toy. (I'm going to admit that I never played an Eye toy game.) Again, the technology existed, some kind of motion control existed before, but the usage and the expirience was new.

Also, let's not forget that motion controls isn't the only new thing that the Wiimote brought to console gaming. The pointer is a great addition. It allowed for new expiriences too. Also, the Wiimote isn't hold with two hands (in the standard orientation). The seperation of the Wiimote and the Nunchuck is a great innovation IMO, as it's a lot more comfortable to hold. And it made the Wiimote flexible in usage like no other controller ever was.

I fail to see how the storage medium is an innovation. It was kind of obvious to use in gaming, because CD's became standard for audio at the time. Also, it just increased storage space, so it was just more of the same. I don't call that innovation but evolution. So Sega will get credit for evolving storage space for games. I will say that sometimes, this more storage space was used to create new expiriences. But that happened every time when games got bigger because of more storage space. Just because the change from cartridges to CD's was that visible to all, it's often singled out.

Expanding the gamer base... well, there have been several big leaps. Sony's PS was one big leap in audience expansion, that's for sure, but it wasn't the first. NES brought gaming to a lot of people that weren't gamers before. Just like DS and Wii are doing now. But expanding the audience isn't innovation.

Online... yeah, Sega 'innovated' by bringing it to gaming consoles... which again was pretty obvious, because PC gaming did it before. Let's call it a step foreward for console gaming, but not an innovation.

The very first D-pad that I remember and am aware of was Game and Watch.  I'd be interested to see what was before that.

Nintendo developed the SNES-CD along side Sony before dropping out of the contract (thank god) because it gave Sony control of their ip's.  This became the original playstation.  They were attempting a disc format during NES years though and finally approached Sony for use of the cd.  I'm pretty sure Sega was still first though.

First analog stick?  No.  First analog stick as everyone knows them today (thumbstick)?  Yes

Rumble.  First

Battery-backed saved games.  First

Shoulder buttons. First

Online. First (sorta)  -  The original NES was online in Japan and you could play multi-player games over this network.  You could download games on the atari 2600 through a service called GameLine, but not play other people.

Touch screen gaming?  I dunno... first I think.

IR pointer.  First

Speaker in controller.  First

Split controller in two, both with motion.  First

Power pad or anything similar.  First

Nintendo may not be the inventor of all of the technology, but they generally are the first to take the risk to really use that technology in the gaming market.  I'm not sure if that's all accurate or if something obscure was out before those things, but those are the first time those techs were used in a successful manner. 

But weren't consoles successful before nintendos consoles ? I am well aware what the nes did for gaming. But it took previous (successful compaired to the then market for stuff like this) ideas and used it for their own. Hence they didn't invent it. Sure they improved it. But sony's improved upon the same idea and that's somhow frowned upon. Sony has also brought innovations to the industry and is responsible for console gaming being more then for children. Arguably it could still have happened without sony, but we don't know exacly. The fact that all the big ones influence and develop the video game market is something they don't get credit for. Instead all we hear is how sony copies nintendo and microsoft buys third party dlc (usualy temporarily.)

And regarding CD's.. Try using cartridges today. They're technologically inefficient. Yes cds and dvds are used for cgi and other movies and songs and whatever.. but so are textures, models etc. Atleast today you need a lot of space... And developers increasingly need more. The fact is that while they may not impact your gameplay, they do enchance your gameplay experience.

And that's all that matters.

meh.. expected backslash but 3 replies.. er ok next one is tuoyo

there was a d-pad and a analogue before nes. Both were invented previously to nintendos machine. However, that's not to miniscule the success of the machine.. It's not what i'm trying to do here. My point is simply that nintendo hasn't innovated as many things as you guys often proclaim, and that infact they're doing the same stuff that sony are.. in a lot of aspects.

Actually that's all i need to reply to you. I don't know about shoulder buttons or rumble .. So in those two aspects you may very well be right. Coincidentially nintendos new classic controller has the same layout as the dualshock. So with all the controller stuff you can really say that they copied that. It has the dual analogue, and the handlers like the dualshock so.. Again the companies take from eachother what they can use and make some of their own.

@jaos.. damn your long reply.

I'm not belittling it, as you refer to it as. I'm just saying that it's tirering that some people keep belittling sonys achievements, claiming they copied everything from nintendo while sitting on a high horse, without noticing that nintendo was playing the same ballgame.

The same thing you use, i can use. Playstation was the first to successfully use "Handles" on the sides of the controller which nintendo has then "copied" .. Again it's the same logic.. so to speak.

The pointer ? are you talking about like a mouse ? If they hadn't used that the wii mote would be terrible. It's not innovating.. it's common sense.

Anyways we could keep going like this but i don't see the point. .. The only thing i said was that nintendo didn't invent many of the things they've been proclaimed to and that i am right in. So the only thing i request is people to stop belittling sonys achievements in gaming the same way you wouldn't like anyone to belittle nintendos.

Ofcourse even microsoft has done some for console gaming. It made pc gaming successful on consoles, which we can all appreciate this generation.

staude - innovate != invent, don't get the words confused. Example - Nintendo did not create Bluetooth, but they used the technology to be the way the Wii remote communicates with the console, thus innovating a new type of controller.

Regarding D-pad prior to the NES, I can't recall ever seeing one before that, got any documentation on prior versions?

back to OP - Nintendo buys Sony confirmed?

Well, the Wii was/is something new. So to speak, MS and Sony have not released anything "new" yet, they have just developed technologically better consoles. Strictly speaking, XBOX live is not inovative as well, MS was just the first company to introduce online gaming for consoles (without anything really special). However, when something was innovative, it was BUZZ, singstar or eye toy, but that was basically software. Now, after 3 years, MS and Sony realized at the E3 that they need some hardware like the Wii offers. So why are you expecting Nintendo to counter again and show not only something interesting, but something "really different". I am not blaming MS or Sony here, I am only asking why Big N has to make the first step again? I think when Natal really is what MS promises, all 360 players will love the controls, especially for FPS. And if it was not for Nintendo, this would not be near future on 360.

lol I have just seen tuoyo´s signature, it sums my post perfectly up.

bardicverse said: staude - innovate != invent, don't get the words confused. Example - Nintendo did not create Bluetooth, but they used the technology to be the way the Wii remote communicates with the console, thus innovating a new type of controller. Regarding D-pad prior to the NES, I can't recall ever seeing one before that, got any documentation on prior versions? back to OP - Nintendo buys Sony confirmed?

Wasn't the Intellivision control basically a d-pad, even though it was shaped as a disc rather than a cross?

My respect for Iwata grows. He didn't trash talk Natal or the PSmote. He merely said that however good they are, Nintendo will work their but off making something better