As far as I'm concerned, motion controls in the eyes of the mainstream = wii as far as this gen lasts regardless of whether people think the wiimote is inferior or not on teh internetz. E3 2009 will not change the mainstream view of 360 as where gears, halo and the hardcore meet and ps3 as err...ps3. All the rest is speculation

Regardless of how successful M$ and/or sony's new peripherals are, nothing can take the wii's place this gen. It's all too little, too late. They'll just have to try harder next gen.

do you have proof of this? there is no reason that they don't have some form of joystick planned. The guys behind Sony's motion controls are the same guys behind the EyeToy and PSEye. I doubt they are that stupid.

I expect they were just showing what the motion controls can do , you do not need to demo a joystick to show motion controls. Its like what most web developers do to show demo sites. They show basic function or just some screenshots. They typically you do not see a complete website until they sell you the webpage or they are done making it for you.

Anyways how do you judge failure based on a controller? When did casual gaming have anything to do with motion control till this generation of console gaming? Last time I checked casual gaming has been successful for a LONG time on PC and classic game console like the Atari/NES/Saturn/etc.

I will straight up state that all consoles this generation and all previous generations have had a pretty good amount of casual based games from both 1st and 3rd parties. Sony and Microsoft even before the announcement of their motion controllers have had quite a few fun casual games this generation both network and retail based. They might not have quantity of casual games the Wii and DS has had but quality is there.

Notice one of Nintendo's new ideas, the ability to jump over levels that are too difficult for the player, this illustrates how Nintendo gets what Sony and MS don't nintendo isn't trying to get the causual market, they are trying to create experiences that are all encompassing and to move away from the idea of gaming as some guy sitting in front of the TV in a darkened room, look at the comics in my sig, look at the difference between PS3 and 360 and Wii, nintendo isn't just trying to get casuals, they want to make people into lifelong gamers and to appeal to those who are already gamers, but they want to make certain that the games are accessible to all and give what the public really wants.

I haven't read the entire thread so I'm not sure if this has been adressed yet but, if Microsoft finally "Gets It" when it comes to casual gamers where are the games that appeal to them? I don't mean for Project NATAL either ...

If Microsoft had really committed to attracting a broader demographic of gamers to the XBox 360 we would have seen several games on display from first and third party studios at E3. Where were the party games, kart racers, arcade sports games, puzzle games, platformers, action and/or adventure games, and misc. games that appeal to people outside of the "Hardcore" gamer demographic?

One thing I see so few people understand is that a lot of the success of the Wii can be associated with Nintendo being able to take their style of highly accessable and intuitive gaming and change how the market saw it from "Games for Children" to "Games for everyone else" ... Nintendo is one of the few companies who have decades of experience taking simple games and making them fun as well as taking complicated games and making them accessable. This experience gives them the ability to take a "Trivial" (one button) game like Wii Sports and convert it into the multiplayer game of the generation; at the same time it also gives them the ability to take more complicated games like Mario Galaxy and present them in a way that an inexperienced gamer is willing to try them.

It seems like a simple thing, but Nintendo is one of the few companies that has a track record of producing games that are simple enough that a young child can play them and deep enough that a 30+ year old "Hardcore" gamer can still enjoy them (and be challenged by them).

Well regardless of the naysayers, MS is pouring an ass load of money and support into Natal. It will come out whether people bitch about it's lack of uses on forums or not, in fact, forums matter so very little, and correlate so very little, in the grand scheme of things.

But how much of the Wiis current success is simply due to it being the most popular system? Do systems like the PS2 not prove that people for the most part get the sytem which is the most popular at the time? Perhaps really a lot which seperates the Wii from the other systems isn't 'Nintendo magic' but the fact that their system happens to be the most popular system and sales simply snowball from there. The Wii became popular because it had a different experience than the other two, but perhaps it stays popular due to being popular. The Wii simply makes Nintendo look really good just like the PS2 made Sony look really smart and intelligent until they well... weren't.

If they are throwing so much money and support into making their system attract a broader demographic of gamers why are there so few games for release in 2009 or 2010 that appeal to these gamers?

The Arcade has tons of games for casuals.  And I did not say they are currently throwing tons of support for casual gaming on the 360, just that they are throwing tons of money and support for Natal.  In fact, MS is viewing Natal as a rejuvenation of the platform, another launch if you will that will make it last several more years.  They have said this.  And it is looking like Pete is going to be in charge of the main first party software that utilizes Natal.  Which isn't a bad thing if you ask me.

Do you think that Nintendo could start a heavy campaign (alongside their current strategy) in 2 years to target the "Hardcore" demographic by releasing several violent and "Mature" videogames and be highly successful? Don't you think you need some experience producing a certain kind of game to really understand why people like it, and don't you need some credibility with gamers to be highly successful with them?

All you need is good word of mouth and incredible media coverage.  That would get their foot in the door.