@Destroyer of Knights: You actually (unintentionally) nailed one thing; the Sony system is better than Natal.

If Natal and the standard controller can't work together, putting them into the same box is just putting them to the same box. What you need is games to support it.

Natal is getting "the rest of the casual audience" the same way Eyetoy did. The whole argument that you made sounds stupid, when you put it into context; the "casual" buy Wiis because they don't understand about tech, the "casual" will buy Natal because it's new tech.
It's the HD-SD argument again.

There's two things that makes people fail hard with predictions:
1. Thinking that tech has something meaningful to do with the industry.
2. Thinking that there's some sort of magical casual market to absorb everything you like/don't like.

@ironman

i have yet to see a true answer to my motion questions. ill say it again since you seem to be avoiding it. how do you MOVE? by jogging or running in place? people will get tired of that. theres also the issue of space. im sure not everyone has a huge living room or room of choice for NATAL.

what about fighters like street fighter and soul calibur, how do you preform all those complex combos?

or how about arcade games?......................(i feel like im repeating myself)

please answer my questions instead of avoiding them.

i want to know as well : p

bdbdbd

i think it's true what your saying, everyday people barely notice the difference between HD and SD

@dark_ghost_boy: That's not what i mean. If ET on 2600 had been in HD, it would still had ended up as landfill, or if Ubis Imagine or "Z" series would be on HD, everybody would still complain about the games being crap. Lair sucked pretty hard, despite it being in HD, EA milks with its HD sports games in the same way it milked SD sports games etc., etc...
The point was, that the whole videogames industry exists only because people want to play videogames. Not because people want fancy tech.

The games serve the purpose of entertaining people and tech serve the purpose of making the entertainment possible. If your games can't entertain, the tech is obsolete.

When i think about how the wiimote was approched by 3rd party in 2006, majority of them didn't know how to make it work better than Nintendo did with Wii Sports initially. And project natal will require even a lot more work to incorporate in a game than the wii remote (minus M+). So it leaves me with a serious question about project NATAL:

How could it be possible that a tech that require more work than the wiimote development (which few developers mastered BTW) can get a lot of support ?

I find the tech interesting, but if there's no content worth playing, it's gonna be exactly like the eye toy (undersupported i mean). Seriously, if the future is to talk to a virtual british boy, i'm not in. Except for the ball game and the other about painting (which looked really lame), we have yet to see it in action. They will have to do better than a video montage to get me.

And a lot of efforts of next-gen consoles are put into the graphics and is already a major reason why next-gen development is very expensive. So if u add support for natal, only the most rich and talented studios will be able to manage that kind of development.

I still think natal will be a great tech, if it's well used...

@Wildchild_cob29 - Do consider that Microsoft are past masters in providing excellent development tools and they've already got a comprehensive kit built it seems. If you look how quickly 3rd party devs got on top of the 360 hardware it shows how good they are at creating toolkits. I admit I never saw what the original Wii development tools were like but I would imagine Microsoft will be at least on par with them if not better.

@Slowmo: I'm not quite sure about that. You could say the same thing about Nintendo, considering Wii, since Wii developement is so similar to GC developement. Basically the idea M$ has, is to provide evinronment as close to PC (Whndows) developement as possible (for obvious reasons).

So, the "easy" part was, that devs already familiar to DirectX, were pretty familiar with 360 developement, before 360 even had its first dev kit out (the same it was with Wii, due to similarities with GC).

In the end, the reason why the devs failed to grasp Wii developement, wasn't because of the dev tools, or the ease of programming, but that the devs didn't grasp what the fuck to do with it.

Just explain to everyone on here again how you're privvy to that knowledge exactly?  Microsoft have already said they will get it working with existing games so thats one point you're wrong on.  I can understand why a Nintendo fanboy doesn't see the value in new IP's but that could come across as being too harsh I guess.  I really don't care about them trying to capture the casual market, I just want them to provide existing owners with more choice which is the goal of Natal. 

Funny how given the utter drought of "hardcore" titles that have hit the Wii as the best selling console this generation that it has more options, it would appear you're wrong in that regard too.  Your post is the point I was making, last week you had no issues with the 360 it was seen as no threat anymore to the success of the Wii, it would just cruise along in 2nd or 3rd place till the end of the generation.  A week later and all you can do is post as negatively as you can regarding a exciting new controller in some ill conceived attempt at damage control. 

The OP said if Nintendo had unveiled this they would be slated, the response from the Nintendo community on here has been to do exactly that to Microsoft.  If you want to cry about being treated more harshly than other companies with innovative products then you would all do well not to prove the fact false with your comments you've made in this thread.  Carry on slating Natal though, there is going to be a lot of crow to eat from this thread next year.

OMG! I already explained this twice! Don't you people know how to read? I've never seen such a dense group of people in my life!

Moving: If you want to jump, jump. If you want to walk, walk in place, walk foreward, say "walk". If you want to straft, move sideways, say "straft left". If you want to crouch, crouch. If you want to hide behind something, move like you are moving behind it, and say "takeing cover". For complex fighting games, if you want to puch, punch, if you want to use a combo, just say what combo you want to do. if you want to do a complex combo, just say what combo you want to do while you act like you are punching. For arcade games, obviously just make the motion you want replicated. I

Buttons, triggers, thumbsticks, dpad: You don't need any of those. Anything you would do with a controller, you now physically perform the action, thus completely eliminating the need for any sort of a controller.

Facts that play into the whole argument: 

MS plans to make Halo and COD work with Natal, This should tell you they have a plan for controlls on FPS.

MS whole marketing campiagn is based on "You are the controller" adding a waggle remote would completely nullify the very core of their marketing sloagan.

MS will make sure that all games for NATAL will also work with the origional controller. This means, if you get tired playing with the motion control, or are just too fat and lazy (why would you buy NATAL at that point?) you can switch over to the regular controller. 

I hope this has answered everybody's questions.