The free market is the best tool we have ever designed for improving the human condition. The only way it can work is if political control and intervention in the market is kept to a minimum. The market values businessmen higher than binmen (actually nurses are paid rather more than some businessmen). Therefore they earn more. They may be working just as "hard", but the businessman/engineer/scientist is either more intelligent or worked harder to advance himself.

I'm good at science and will have a career in it. It doesn't pay well, but it pays more than a binman. Where is the incentive for me to put in the extra work and time to study to be a scientist if being a binman pays just as well? The vast majority of binmen can't be scientists but the reverse is not true.

so if someone chooses to be a nurse rather than a bussinessman, theyre an idiot who didnt work hard enough and deserves to earn less for that alone

so what if we all became bussinessmen then? who would do all the things you think only idiots and lazy people do?

why should you become a scientist?

because you want too, surely?

if you want to do something, pay dosent mean much to you, what im saying is that we should make the system so, no matter what you do, you have a basic standard of living, im not saying we should stop people from earinng more, im saying that if you earn more, then you should pay more in tax to help thoose who arent as well off.

i have a single parent, ive never considerd myself or my family well-off, i worked hard at school, didnt do great though (partly as i have learning difficulties, but i guess in your world thoose dont exist) as i panic and get stressed out in exams. by the way, the last time i went on holiday was in 2006, because my granparents paid for me to come visit them, my mum couldnt have afforded to let me go, i also have debt from going to uni, which i had to drop out of because i was unwell and didnt enjoy the course at all, my mum dosent claim benefits, im currently doing voulantry work, because getting a paid job is very hard for me at the moment, so in order to pay my mum rent, so she can pay the bills, i have to get jobseekers allowance, i want to be either a jounralist or a politician, so im doing a course in september, paid for probaby by more debt, same with going back to uni, even if im succsesfull, ill be paying off the debt for a while and may never be particularly welthy, but hey its what i want to do, and i at least have a basic standard of living.

AGAIN, I NEVER SAID THAT, I ASKED WHY YOU THINK YOU SHOULD BE PAID MORE AND WHY YOU SHOULDNT PAY MORE IN TAX TO HELP THE LESS FORTUNATE.

No, I'm being a scientist because I want to help society. I could easily become a doctor if money was my only motivation. Typical salaries for research scientists are 25k or so, yet I'll have to work a lot harder studying than if I wanted to become a binman. And then I'll have to work many more hours than a binman. Finally, binmen have better pensions because they are state employees.

There is a need for some binmen-level workers; these can be filled by the idiots who don't work at school. They should drop out at 16. Idiots and lazy people can't become businessmen. Yes, people who become binmen DO NOT DESERVE the same standard of living as a businessman or other jobs that pay well. That's what I'm saying.

Your first statement makes no sense because nurses earn MORE than most businessmen. But I agree, if they choose to be a binman rather than a businessman they should earn less because they are not fulfilling their potential [Anyone can be a binman but it takes talent and hard work to be a businessman].

Like I said earlier, the value to jobs is whatever the free market determines. Intefering with that via taxation is interfering with the system that has produced the highest average standard of living in history.

the minimum wage is a good thing, im in favour of it, same with benefits for thoose who need them, some of them though, still have a hard time paying bills and stuff, more tax, means we can help them more.

i didnt say you dont pay more in tax, just that some could pay more, and there are loopholes in taxation that need to be closed

many nurses, i know because i know people who are nurses, earn the average wage or less, im sure theyre are more wealthy ones, but i dobt they get all the loopholes a bussinessman does

would you not agree though, that if the binman is struggling to pay for food, that the government should help them?

the standard of living in the UK, is not from what ive seen/heard anywhere near what you two think it is.

according to the free market though, the rich get lots of money, often for doing less than the poor who get little or no help in a truly capitalistic system

your assuming i wouldnt change the N.I, but anyway

i wouldnt have a basic and a high rate for a start, id have many more levels.

something like this, would be a rough example

if you earn 10k or less, you pay 10% in tax (after tax you have 9k)
if you earn 20k, you pay 20% (you have 16k)
40k, you pay 25% (you have 30k)
80k, you pay 35% (you have 52k)
160k, you pay 50% (you have 80k)

so, you still earn more, but you also pay more to help out, why, how would you do it?

That system is made of fail. So if I earn 19,999 I end up with 18k but if I earn 20k I end up with 16k? WTF?

EDIT: Good point below. I'd still like a single, centralised tax and single, centralised unemployment benefit. Less room for scamming and unfairness.

Here's my system:

Flat 40% tax rate on EVERYTHING.

Then government pays you £15,000 regardless of income.

Oh, no means-tested benefits of any kind. Not unemployment or jobseekers'.  Keeping disability but not incapacitance. So if you're unemployed you endi up with £15k and that's it. Enough to live on the basics in rented accomodation.

And no other taxes of any kind. That means no stamp duty, no alcohol duty, no customs duty, no National Insurance, no VAT, no Inheritance Tax, no petrol duty, no tobacco duty, nothing.

--

So, typical results:

£0k - £15k
£5k - £18k
£10k - £21k
£15k - £24k
£20k - £27k
£40k - £39k
£60k - £51k
£100k - £75k

Yeah, you have a point. Didn't think about couples.