Damn.  That's more dense then the UK.  And everyone describes Israel as being "Spread out" and that almost no one lives there.  Go figure.

Israel can do anything in that area in my book. At least they have a stable government instead of a grouping of terrorists leading them.

I guess hate is too strong a word for you. They heavily dislike and will take any and every oppurtunity to persecute Israel.

I kinda feel like outside intervention only hurts the peace process.

All Israel is going to do is run out the clock until Obama gets replaced with a pro-Israeli president.

Just how Palestine ran out the clock under bush....

Why they didn't agree to the Clinton deal that the Israeli's signed on to I can't fathom. That was probably the best deal they were going to get.

It also doesn't help that Israel doesn't even want to sit at the table right now... since the constant Hamas attacks pushed Israel into the right wing of their politics.

It's easy for me on the opposite side of the world, in safety and relative wealth, but I find the whole thing just sort of ridiculous.  (That's not to say it's not tragic... somehow, it's both.)  Okay, I'm a bit fuzzy on details, but this is my big-picture understanding:

Historically, Jews moved to Israel.  Somehow that's wrong, and bad, and "stealing."  They were parcelled out a country, along with the "Palestinians" (who according to my understanding didn't really previously exist as a political group, except in response to Jewish immigration), following the departure of the British.

The Palestinians declared war against Israel and attacked in league with other nations, hoping for a land grab, at basically first opportunity.  Didn't work out; Israel claimed the invaders' land as their own.  Created a bunch of refugees, as Palestinians either fled from their homes or were evicted.

The Palestinians looked for a new home among their comrades-in-arms... no one wanted 'em but Jordan, but they preferred to be permanent refugees, and their political policy became explicit terrorism, teaching young children to throw homemade bombs at policemen and hate and what-not.

This gained them great sympathy in the press.

Bowing to growing foreign political pressure, both sides starting meeting for "peace talks" which were invariably derailed by some boming in a Tel Aviv marketplace by "extremists" who didn't want any peace other than an Israeli-free peace.  Over decades of this, Israel fluctuated between an F-U attitude and agreeing to cede lands to the creation of a Palestinian state, because the best way to discourage aggressors is to give in to their aggression.

Now, individual Israeli citizens look to build new homes near their families, even in these territories occupied since wars decades past.  This is politically inconvenient, because Palestinians want that land.  And so we (the United States) are mad at Israel for not stopping their own citizens from building new homes, by force, so that this land can more readily be given to people who ostensibly hate them and want them eradicated.

Jesus God, it's all so lame.

People are dumb and nothing's easy, but I'd love to see one of the following...  Either the Palestinians just give up already and find a new home (I hear Alaska is willing to pay people to move there, and there's plenty of room), or the Israeli govt. assists the Palestinians in gaining full citizen status in Israel, or they go ahead and make Palestine an officially independent country... but stipulate that Palestine has to care for the Jews living "in their land," and treat them equally on pain of losing their newly-found independence.

I mean, if Palestine is ready for the big-time, then they'll have to be able to accomodate minority populations, right?  Or will the creation of Palestine require some sort of ethnic cleansing?  Hell, if people want to build new homes that are otherwise legal, let them, I don't care whether they're Israeli, Palestinian or other.

@Kasz216

Yes, Arafat screwed up a chance of a lifetime for the Palestinians by gambling on an arrogant strategy of denying the final plan in Camp David 2000 and then accelerate the 'second intifada' (Temple Mount riots).

I almost felt sorry for Shimon Peres in all these TV documentarys in the years after, where he explained that he had trust in Arafat, but was let down, with the side-effect that even Peres looked like an old pathetic loser in front of Israel and the whole world.



@donathos

Great analysis.

Who the fuck are others to "parcel out" a country from someone else's land? Also the reason why they were able to defend their new "parcel" is because of ridiculously heavy support from Britain and US etc. in terms of weapons, int, etc. That's what's wrong with Israel and why some people just can't give a fuck about them over there.

As for people in settlements. It's an international crime, plain and simple. Would you give a fuck if Mexicans just came over and started building towns in TX, AZ, etc. and not even obey the US laws and stuff? Yeah.... Israels is completely over the line here. Only dumb people are the ones who actually follow Israel and lick their ass nonstop.

Well, it's also an international crime to start three wars against a nation acknowledged by the UN.

The Arabs are just suffering the natural consequences from that.

However "parceling out" someone's land is fine, then supplying them with the resources to defend this "parcel" is absolutely fine too! Israel was a mistake.

The last time i checked this territory was UK protectorate since end of WW I and was decided to be divided beetween arabs and jews by UN after the WW II. However arabs refused to acknowledge it and started war which they lost and which costed them territories given to them by UN.

Somehow druzez have no problem in being part of Israel to the point where they have separate regiments in Israel army created on their own demand.