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Forums - Gaming - Top 5 RTS?

Avalach21 on 23 September 2007
Pk9394 said:
1. StarCraft (nothing come close beating this monster, this is the best and most balanced RTS ever made)
2. Warcraft 3
3. nothing else come close to those two
4. same as #3
5. same as #3

I played alot of RTS games but I dont think AOE and C&C deserved in the same league as those two. both of those franchise is average at best.

Command and conquer was great in the mid-late 90s... poor westwood, swallowed by EA



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SnesTea on 23 September 2007

There is only one great RTS

StarCraft.

All others are runners-up.

Only StarCraft II could be possibly better and it looks even better every time I see it.



Stevetrop on 23 September 2007

1. Herzog Zwei
2. Dune II: Battle for Arrakis
3. Warcraft 2
4. Starcraft
5. Command & Conquer



"Everyone else see's the Joker laugh; only Harley has ever seen him cry."- Arleen Sorkin

 

In an hour of Darkness a blind man is
the best guide. In an age of Insanity
look to the madman to show the way.
- - Warhammer 40,000 rule book

BenKenobi88 on 24 September 2007

No particular order:

Company of Heroes (just bought last week...AMAZING! Graphics are excellent, mechanics are top-notch)

C&C: Red Alert 2 (I don't know...just played it a ton, still play it with friends once in a while)

Age of Empires 2: Age of Kings (I played the heck out of this...I grew up on AoE 1 and 2, not Starcraft or Warcraft...I played those much later)

Warcraft 3 (Like I said, I grew up on AoE, but after playing this for some time now, I've really gotten used to it and love it)

I'm not huge on Starcraft, mainly because I didn't grow up with it...and I don't have much of a desire to play now, because everyone is way too good at it...especially online with the Koreans...



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Avalach21 on 24 September 2007
Stevetrop said:
1. Herzog Zwei
2. Dune II: Battle for Arrakis
3. Warcraft 2
4. Starcraft
5. Command & Conquer

 I have a hard time with this question myself.  Becasue I could say something like Warcraft II, as it was a great game (in its time) and I loved it, and still do, but is it really one of the greatest RTS of all time, now, in retrospect?  It had 2 identical races, the only difference being the spells of the paladin and ogre magi, and the deathknight/mage (where the orcs get the upperhand in both).

 

Does this game really belong on a top RTS of all time list?  At it's time, sure, it was probobly the greatest game out at the time, but in this day and age, does an RTS like that still stand up?

 

Surely, I love the game.  I mean look at my avatar, but I guess I must admit that WC2 does not belong up there, as it's flaws have shown through over time.

I feel that Red Alert 1 and Command and Conquer have better withsood the test of time than WC 2.  In fact, Red Alert for example, is almost a step forward compared to many modern RTS's.  So many RTS games these days are just over exaggerated games of rock paper scissors.  In red alert 1, each race had it's advantages that you had to take advantage of to win.  There was no x counters y, y counters z, z counters x, gameplay.  There was no counter to a mammoth tank rush.  There was no counter to cruiser with destroyers to defend it.  You had to play to your races advantage... Soviets had defense (tesla coils) and heavy armor... and air force superiority.  Allies had technology,  quick units and complete naval superiority.  Your strategy had to revolve around your teams abilities rather than just getting whatever unit counters whatever units your enemy is getting.



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omgwtfbbq on 24 September 2007

Starcraft
TA
Dawn of War



Help! I'm stuck in a forum signature!

Stevetrop on 24 September 2007
Avalach21 said:
Stevetrop said:
1. Herzog Zwei
2. Dune II: Battle for Arrakis
3. Warcraft 2
4. Starcraft
5. Command & Conquer

I have a hard time with this question myself. Becasue I could say something like Warcraft II, as it was a great game (in its time) and I loved it, and still do, but is it really one of the greatest RTS of all time, now, in retrospect? It had 2 identical races, the only difference being the spells of the paladin and ogre magi, and the deathknight/mage (where the orcs get the upperhand in both).

 

Does this game really belong on a top RTS of all time list? At it's time, sure, it was probobly the greatest game out at the time, but in this day and age, does an RTS like that still stand up?

 

Surely, I love the game. I mean look at my avatar, but I guess I must admit that WC2 does not belong up there, as it's flaws have shown through over time.

I feel that Red Alert 1 and Command and Conquer have better withsood the test of time than WC 2. In fact, Red Alert for example, is almost a step forward compared to many modern RTS's. So many RTS games these days are just over exaggerated games of rock paper scissors. In red alert 1, each race had it's advantages that you had to take advantage of to win. There was no x counters y, y counters z, z counters x, gameplay. There was no counter to a mammoth tank rush. There was no counter to cruiser with destroyers to defend it. You had to play to your races advantage... Soviets had defense (tesla coils) and heavy armor... and air force superiority. Allies had technology, quick units and complete naval superiority. Your strategy had to revolve around your teams abilities rather than just getting whatever unit counters whatever units your enemy is getting.


 Well this top five is on each persons opinion.  While WC2 hasen't held to much against the test of time and WC3 has far surpassed it.  For me WC2 was my introduction to Blizzard's RTS game play style.  For me it was a new type of RTS play style than westwood had shown me with Dune II and Command & Conquer.  Thats why I have it in my top 5 RTS list.



"Everyone else see's the Joker laugh; only Harley has ever seen him cry."- Arleen Sorkin

 

In an hour of Darkness a blind man is
the best guide. In an age of Insanity
look to the madman to show the way.
- - Warhammer 40,000 rule book

Rath on 24 September 2007

1. Rome: Total War. Its on the edge of real timeturnbased, the battles are real time strategy however.

2. Total Annihilation. Oh my god this game was fun. Peewee hordes in particular were amusing.

3. Warcraft II. I hated three.

4. Command and Conquer. Was good

5. Age of Empires. Far far far better than its sequels. Especially three.

 

Edit: Theres a sequal type thing to Total Annhilation? I am so buying it. 



Zom on 24 September 2007

1. Starcraft 2. Warcraft 2 3. AoE II 4. Warcraft 3 5. Civilization Thats my list I still love a good game of Starcraft to this day and always have it installed same for AoE II even though I know I'm not particularly good at either I just enjoy a good comp stomp on as high a difficulty level and as many as me and a friend or two can take on. WC3 disapointed me on the rts front but I do love its customization ability and do feel it deserves to at least be up there for that. WC2 thats all nostalgia that sucker made me want to get into PC gaming the day my cousin showed it to me I was hooked. Whoops missed that you could put turn based strategy in there at first. If Civ counts oh man I've spent too much time on that game its so easy to get lost in. Still can't believe I got started playing those by renting Civ 1 on the SNES of all places to first try them.



Now Playing : Links Crossbow Training(Wii), Super Mario Galaxy(Wii) FE: Path of Radiance(GC)

makingmusic476 on 24 September 2007
Avalach21 said:
makingmusic476 said:
Avalach21 said:
makingmusic476 said:

This includes TBS like the Total War series.

Anyway, mine are:

Age of Mythology
Battle for Middle-Earth II
Supreme Commander

Those three all tie. Two others are:

Company of Heroes
Shogun: Total War (I sadly haven't gotten any of the later ones. Samurai ftw!)

RTS I dislike:

Empire Earth (Spending an hour building up a 100 man army only to have it slaughtered in under a minute ftl!)
Warcraft III (It's popularity astounds me, seeing as there are so many other, better RTSes out there. It's okay in and of itself, but horribly overrated.)

RTS I own:

Age of Empires II + Exp.
Age of Mythology + Exp.
Age of Empires III
Shogun: Total War + Exp.
LotR: Battle for Middle-Earth
LotR: Battle for Middle-Earth II + Exp.
C&C: Red Alert
C&C: Red Alert Retaliation (for PS1)
C&C: Tiberian Sun
C&C: Red Alert 2
C&C: Generals + Exp. (ruined the C&C name)
Company of Heroes
Supreme Commander
Warcraft III + Exp.
Empire Earth II

And probably a few others I've forgotten.


How is warcraft III horibbly overrated? It is the best RTS out there, hands down. Either WC3 or Starcraft. It's almost to a point that these are facts, and not even opinion.

 

Company of Heroes is great. I'd put that up near the top. Command and Conquer tiberian dawn and C and C Red Alert 1 were great. Red Alert 2 was pretty good too.

 

 

If you like Supreme commander, you should try total annihilation. That was a great game. It was basically SupCom's predecessor.

 

and again, how is WC3 overrated?


I personaly don't like WCIII because it has too much RPG in it. You have to build your first hero ASAP, and if you don't spend every moment possible ranking him up, you're screwed. I'd always lose battles just because my heroes were 1-2 levels behind my opponents. It didn't matter how much I built, or how good my econ was, because the pop caps were so low that it was hard to maintain a sizeable enough army to counter strong heroes. THe fact that units took a bit long to build made it harder to come back after a rough attack. Sure, other games like BFME had heroes, but they didn't dominate the battlefield because you could rank up your regular units as well, and a strong army could counter a strong hero. In WC, everything revolved around the heros. I play RTS to fight wars, not run around killing creeps and collecting tomes.

As for it being horribly overrated, most of my friends, the few others that play RTS, only play WCIII, quite often because that is the only RTS they have ever played, and they usually play RPG custom maps. It would bug me to no end. They'd go, "Wanna play some RTS?"

"Yeah sure!" (getting all excited because nobody ever wants to play RTS)

"Okay, let's play WC3."

Then they'd join an RPG custom map and I'd just quit. Sure there were some fun custom maps like Footmen Frenzy (somewhat similar to Mythodea in AoM, which was a blast), but my friends never wanted to play those.

I'll give you Starcraft being one of the best RTS' ever. There weren't any heroes to dominate the gameplay.

And yeah, I've played TA a few times. Good stuff.


Have you actually played WC3 online? I very rarely reach the population cap... If your hero is 2 levels below your enemies, then you're obviously doing something wrong... They are creeping stuff while you are sitting in your base for no reason. You should be creeping as well (and teching), or rushing to attack their base while it is empty (since they are creeping, and will have wounded soldiers and/or a hero with no mana when they run/teleport back to their base).

 

Of course Heroes are an integral part of the gameplay, but they are no where near as "overpowerd" as you make them out to be. Heroes are what make Wc3 so interesting. They introduced such a novel concept into RTS and it worked out so well. There are too many specific cases to bring up, but there are always counters to other heros.

You can definantly counter heros before reaching the population cap (again, the game should be over before you can even concievablly hit the cap). Creeping only gets you to a max level of 5. If you even let someone creep to level 5, then you are terrible.

 

Basically, it comes down to this - just because you lack skill or understanding at the game, it doesn't make it bad. Heroes, of course, are more powerful than other units, but they surely aren't overpowered. Every strategy can be countered. If you just don't like the RPG elements fused with the RTS elements, that's fine, I can respect that opinion, as long as you can respect that Blizzard did try something creative and novel with the RTS genre, even if you don't like it. But to say that the game is overrated because you don't understand it's mechanics... I can't respect your opinion.

 

And yeah, I'm sorry your friends play custom maps... There are some good ones, like Footywars, and even wintermaul wars is fun, but I find ladder play to be much more fun than the custom games.


But my entire point was that it focuses too heavily on the heroes and creeping.  If I lose because my heroes are 2 levels behind, then it does focus too much on the heroes....for an RTS game.  This isn't RPG, it's RTS.  It's supposed to focus on warfare and battles, not small conflicts between heroes and a few accompanying troops.

As I mentioned before with my BFME example, there are RTS games that use heroes in new and intriguing ways, yet the focus is still on the army/economy/general warfare as a whole, as it should be with an RTS game.

I consider the game to be overrated, because many consider it a popular RTS game, one of the greatest, when it is really more of an RTS/RPG hybrid, and shouldn't really be compared to the normal RTS game.  As far as strict RTS games go, there are much better games on the market, and you can't say WC3 is better as an RTS, when most of the gameplay features that make the game "better" are RPG elements that take away from the RTS gameplay.  These features may improve the game vastly, as shown by the devotion of fans such as yourself, but it doesn't make the game a better RTS.