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Forums - General - Thanks Obama for the credit card interest rate hike.

TheRealMafoo said:

So Obama is trying to pass a law that says credit cards will not be able to hike rates on current balances.

So what does this do? It causes the Credit Card companies to go ahead and hike them now, while they still can. I am planing a wedding in a few months, and have a couple thousand on a card. I expect to pay it off in a few months, but I got a notice in the mail today that the rate on that card is going up on future and current balances.

Anything else you want to fuck up Mr. President?

 

He's trying his best to fix things while many including the credit card industry do their best to try to stop him.  There are so many greedy people putting their own interests ahead of their fellow citizens and even the US's best interest that it may end up destroying the United States in the end.



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Legend11 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

So Obama is trying to pass a law that says credit cards will not be able to hike rates on current balances.

So what does this do? It causes the Credit Card companies to go ahead and hike them now, while they still can. I am planing a wedding in a few months, and have a couple thousand on a card. I expect to pay it off in a few months, but I got a notice in the mail today that the rate on that card is going up on future and current balances.

Anything else you want to fuck up Mr. President?

 

He's trying his best to fix things while many including the credit card industry do their best to try to stop him.  There are so many greedy people putting their own interests ahead of their fellow citizens and even the US's best interest that it may end up destroying the United States in the end.

 

The best way to fix things, is education, spend billions explaining to people how this is a very bad idea. Create a class in public schools for finance (like Math), that kids must attend.

Arm the people with the knowledge they need, don't pass "because I said so" parenting laws on companies. 

Companies will always find way to take advantage of the stupid. The best way to combat that, is make people less stupid.

edit: I know "stupid" is the wrong word. It just sounds better then "uneducated". :)



TheRealMafoo said:
Non Sequor said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Non Sequor said:
Ah relax, this sort of thing has played out plenty of times before. One set of guys comes in and fixes some things, fucks up other things, and then later the other team is up to bat again and they fuck up some things and fix other things.

...

So to wrap it all up, congratulations on your marriage and I'm sorry you've been left holding the bag, but that's always happening to someone. My suggestion is to keep your mouth shut and let both sides propose their batshit schemes and watch how they play out. The other side will eventually knock down the worst of them and a few may actually work.

Save the righteous indignation for the true horrors of the world.

 

The real reason for this thread, (and most of my political threads), is giving our leaders to much power is never a good thing. We are in a world right now where it would be very easy for Obama to collect a lot more power. A lot of the country sees him as the second coming. He can do no wrong, and the best for the country is to just put all of our lives in his hands.

He is no better or worse then the last guy, or if the power is the same, the next guy. The problem is not the man, but the power you give him. I am trying to open peoples eyes to how this man is just another man, prone to attempt to use his power to try and help people, only to end the end screw things up with it.

The passages I quoted from you, show you already understand this, and thus you are not my target audience. Thanks by the way, I can't wait to me married!

I should put this in my quote block:

Describe who I am talking about Bush or Obama: I hope to use all my power, and maybe ever a little I shouldn't have, to change the world in way that's better for all that live in it. Answer: both. (the last 8 years showed how effective that is).

 

I think you understand most of the truth, but not quite all of it.

 

I think there's a corollary to that maxim from President Ford in your signature:

A government small enough to not take anything away from you is a government small enough to not be able to prevent others from taking everything you have.

 

The government's just the big bully we've put together to help us deal with the smaller bullies. Make the big bully smaller and the smaller bullies get bigger. There's no way of objectively deciding who we should be more scared of.

For the past hundred years or so, people have been more afraid of the smaller bullies. At some point we'll probably see that pushed to a point where it's clearly too far and the pendulum will swing back in the other direction. It's not clear where that point will be and it's not my place to answer that question for other people.

You know a great philosopher once said, "the day destroys the night; the night divides the day."

Well, there is protection, and parenting. This law fully falls on the side of parenting. That should never be a governments job of a free country.

The only thing this law protects you from, is yourself. Not a fan of it.

 

 

Duly noted. But other people may feel differently. Different people have different ideas about how government should behave.

The question is, will this law create good or bad incentives? So far we've seen at least one bad one, but there may be good ones yet to reveal themselves.

You've got to give them the time it takes to figure out if they've screwed it up better or screwed it up worse. The democrats have won four years in the sand box so let's give them some time to see if they can build anything that will stay up. Let the people get what they asked for and we'll see if they like it when they do.

The only things that should be completely out of consideration are ideas which cannot be justified without using the phrase "the ends justify the means." That's when you know someone is going to do something monstrous and horrible.



"Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!" -- Daffy Duck
Non Sequor said:

Duly noted. But other people may feel differently. Different people have different ideas about how government should behave.

The question is, will this law create good or bad incentives? So far we've seen at least one bad one, but there may be good ones yet to reveal themselves.

You've got to give them the time it takes to figure out if they've screwed it up better or screwed it up worse. The democrats have won four years in the sand box so let's give them some time to see if they can build anything that will stay up. Let the people get what they asked for and we'll see if they like it when they do.

The only things that should be completely out of consideration are ideas which cannot be justified without using the phrase "the ends justify the means." That's when you know someone is going to do something monstrous and horrible.

 

To the bold:

This is why we have the constitution. To protect us from this. When we put people in office, and give them the authority to tell us what's best for us, of pass laws to shape our lives in the direction they want us to live, we lose our liberties.

As for the "ends justifies the means", 85% of the country thought so when we went to war in Iraq. Does that make it right?

It's not a question of giving them time to figure out if it's better or worse, it's about should they even have the authority to play a role. Yes, there will be positive outcomes for many.

What you lose, is a little more liberty... we lose a little more with every law that passes. Once lost, you can never get it back. A few more quote from the greatest American who ever lived:

 

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people. - John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever. - John Adams

 

Every child who leaves school, should know who this man was, and what he meant to the United States. I would be shocked in 20% of americans know much about him.

 



Legend11 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

So Obama is trying to pass a law that says credit cards will not be able to hike rates on current balances.

So what does this do? It causes the Credit Card companies to go ahead and hike them now, while they still can. I am planing a wedding in a few months, and have a couple thousand on a card. I expect to pay it off in a few months, but I got a notice in the mail today that the rate on that card is going up on future and current balances.

Anything else you want to fuck up Mr. President?

 

He's trying his best to fix things while many including the credit card industry do their best to try to stop him.  There are so many greedy people putting their own interests ahead of their fellow citizens and even the US's best interest that it may end up destroying the United States in the end.

This.

 



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TheRealMafoo said:
Non Sequor said:

Duly noted. But other people may feel differently. Different people have different ideas about how government should behave.

The question is, will this law create good or bad incentives? So far we've seen at least one bad one, but there may be good ones yet to reveal themselves.

You've got to give them the time it takes to figure out if they've screwed it up better or screwed it up worse. The democrats have won four years in the sand box so let's give them some time to see if they can build anything that will stay up. Let the people get what they asked for and we'll see if they like it when they do.

The only things that should be completely out of consideration are ideas which cannot be justified without using the phrase "the ends justify the means." That's when you know someone is going to do something monstrous and horrible.

 

To the bold:

This is why we have the constitution. To protect us from this. When we put people in office, and give them the authority to tell us what's best for us, of pass laws to shape our lives in the direction they want us to live, we lose our liberties.

As for the "ends justifies the means", 85% of the country thought so when we went to war in Iraq. Does that make it right?

It's not a question of giving them time to figure out if it's better or worse, it's about should they even have the authority to play a role. Yes, there will be positive outcomes for many.

What you lose, is a little more liberty... we lose a little more with every law that passes. Once lost, you can never get it back. A few more quote from the greatest American who ever lived:

 

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people. - John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever. - John Adams

 

Every child who leaves school, should know who this man was, and what he meant to the United States. I would be shocked in 20% of americans know much about him.

 

The strength of the Constitution comes from the fact that it represented a set of compromises between competing concerns. It lays out the basic structure of our government, but it doesn't dictate the compromises that need to be made now.

Everyone interprets the Constitution in a way that supports their beliefs. That's because the Constitution does not dictate the course of action for government, only it's basic structure and ideals. Elements of it support both sides of debates because elements of both sides of debates went into it.

With all due respect to John Adams, his statement that freedom can never be restored is plainly false. Prohibition was repealed. The Sedition Act which he signed and which is generally regarded as blatantly unconstitutional was allowed to expire.

It's easy to say "Look! Constitution! Listen to me!" and think that people should be obligated to agree with you but it's never been that easy. People have different ideas about how it should be interpreted.

Basically it comes down to the fact that you can't tell people how to feel. That's part of democracy.

Call people on their bullshit, but don't expect them to be obligated to listen to you. If people want something that's stupid, they'll find out in time.



"Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!" -- Daffy Duck
Non Sequor said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Non Sequor said:

Duly noted. But other people may feel differently. Different people have different ideas about how government should behave.

The question is, will this law create good or bad incentives? So far we've seen at least one bad one, but there may be good ones yet to reveal themselves.

You've got to give them the time it takes to figure out if they've screwed it up better or screwed it up worse. The democrats have won four years in the sand box so let's give them some time to see if they can build anything that will stay up. Let the people get what they asked for and we'll see if they like it when they do.

The only things that should be completely out of consideration are ideas which cannot be justified without using the phrase "the ends justify the means." That's when you know someone is going to do something monstrous and horrible.

 

To the bold:

This is why we have the constitution. To protect us from this. When we put people in office, and give them the authority to tell us what's best for us, of pass laws to shape our lives in the direction they want us to live, we lose our liberties.

As for the "ends justifies the means", 85% of the country thought so when we went to war in Iraq. Does that make it right?

It's not a question of giving them time to figure out if it's better or worse, it's about should they even have the authority to play a role. Yes, there will be positive outcomes for many.

What you lose, is a little more liberty... we lose a little more with every law that passes. Once lost, you can never get it back. A few more quote from the greatest American who ever lived:

 

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people. - John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever. - John Adams

 

Every child who leaves school, should know who this man was, and what he meant to the United States. I would be shocked in 20% of americans know much about him.

 

The strength of the Constitution comes from the fact that it represented a set of compromises between competing concerns. It lays out the basic structure of our government, but it doesn't dictate the compromises that need to be made now.

Everyone interprets the Constitution in a way that supports their beliefs. That's because the Cons titution does not dictate the course of action for government, only it's basic structure and ideals. Elements of it support both sides of debates because elements of both sides of debates went into it.

With all due respect to John Adams, his statement that freedom can never be restored is plainly false. Prohibition was repealed. The Sedition Act which he signed and which is generally regarded as blatantly unconstitutional was allowed to expire.

It's easy to say "Look! Constitution! Listen to me!" and think that people should be obligated to agree with you but it's never been that easy. People have different ideas about how it should be interpreted.

Basically it comes down to the fact that you can't tell people how to feel. That's part of democracy.

Call people on their bullshit, but don't expect them to be obligated to listen to you. If people want something that's stupid, they'll find out in time.

 

Well I have three questions for you.

1. do you think it's the governments job to protect us from ourselves?

2. Do you think the reform we are talking about is to protect us from ourselves?

3. Are you for this reform laws?



TheRealMafoo said:
txrattlesnake said:
What he needs to do though is put a retroactive clause in his bill that says that any rates that go into effect as a response to his plan will be immediately thrown out when the bill passes.

 

You can't do this. The interest rate is there revenue, and it's based on there costs. If Obama is going to change the rules, so there costs go up, you can't penalize them by not allowing them to adjust there income.

The interest rate is PART of their revenue.  There is a service charge for every transaction you engage in that goes directly to them, typically 1-2%.  There are also all kinds of little programs people enroll in (willfully or unwillfully, they enrolled me in programs before with me telling them NOT to cause they are dishonest pieces of shit) that make them money.

I find it just hysterical that you are defending the credit card companies who just raised your rates, and then turning around and blaming Obama for THEM raising your rates.  They were already raising rates on people across the board before this legislation even got out of committee.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

TheRealMafoo said:
Non Sequor said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Non Sequor said:

Duly noted. But other people may feel differently. Different people have different ideas about how government should behave.

The question is, will this law create good or bad incentives? So far we've seen at least one bad one, but there may be good ones yet to reveal themselves.

You've got to give them the time it takes to figure out if they've screwed it up better or screwed it up worse. The democrats have won four years in the sand box so let's give them some time to see if they can build anything that will stay up. Let the people get what they asked for and we'll see if they like it when they do.

The only things that should be completely out of consideration are ideas which cannot be justified without using the phrase "the ends justify the means." That's when you know someone is going to do something monstrous and horrible.

 

To the bold:

This is why we have the constitution. To protect us from this. When we put people in office, and give them the authority to tell us what's best for us, of pass laws to shape our lives in the direction they want us to live, we lose our liberties.

As for the "ends justifies the means", 85% of the country thought so when we went to war in Iraq. Does that make it right?

It's not a question of giving them time to figure out if it's better or worse, it's about should they even have the authority to play a role. Yes, there will be positive outcomes for many.

What you lose, is a little more liberty... we lose a little more with every law that passes. Once lost, you can never get it back. A few more quote from the greatest American who ever lived:

 

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people. - John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever. - John Adams

 

Every child who leaves school, should know who this man was, and what he meant to the United States. I would be shocked in 20% of americans know much about him.

 

The strength of the Constitution comes from the fact that it represented a set of compromises between competing concerns. It lays out the basic structure of our government, but it doesn't dictate the compromises that need to be made now.

Everyone interprets the Constitution in a way that supports their beliefs. That's because the Cons titution does not dictate the course of action for government, only it's basic structure and ideals. Elements of it support both sides of debates because elements of both sides of debates went into it.

With all due respect to John Adams, his statement that freedom can never be restored is plainly false. Prohibition was repealed. The Sedition Act which he signed and which is generally regarded as blatantly unconstitutional was allowed to expire.

It's easy to say "Look! Constitution! Listen to me!" and think that people should be obligated to agree with you but it's never been that easy. People have different ideas about how it should be interpreted.

Basically it comes down to the fact that you can't tell people how to feel. That's part of democracy.

Call people on their bullshit, but don't expect them to be obligated to listen to you. If people want something that's stupid, they'll find out in time.

 

Well I have three questions for you.

1. do you think it's the governments job to protect us from ourselves?

2. Do you think the reform we are talking about is to protect us from ourselves?

3. Are you for this reform laws?

 

1. I think that the government is an institution created by men to do certain things. No two people agree on what those certain things are.

Further I think that when there is sufficient public interest in a certain problem, for good or ill, people will make attempts to solve it either through the government or through other means. The best means of addressing each problem depends on it's innate difficulties which vary from problem to problem.

I think any attempt to argue from dogma that certain classes of problems should be handled in certain ways will ultimately result in less than ideal solutions in some cases.

2. I believe the intention of this law is probably to increase transparency of the cost of consumer credit, which currently prices for the cost of misuse of credit through interest rate triggers which are currently not documented to the satisfaction of some people. I believe that this is a legitimate goal since transparency in transactions tends to improve the function of the market, but it remains to be seen whether this will be accomplished.

3. I don't have an emotional stake in this fight and I'm not informed enough to speculate about what it will or won't accomplish. It may have the result of reducing lending to bad credit risks or it may just result in increased cost of credit across the board. I have no basis for predicting its result and none of the possible outcomes seem overwhelmingly objectionable so I have no basis for supporting or opposing it.



"Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!" -- Daffy Duck
Kasz216 said:
That Guy said:
theorhetically, the credit industry should keep itself in check. However, we've built our entire economic system around the "credit rating," so you almost NEED a credit card in order to build up your credit.

As such, the credit card companies are holding Americans by the balls and they really have no consequences. Obama is simply trying to mitigate predatory lending.

 

Well you could get a credit card... put stuff on it... but always pay it off at the end of the month.

That's what I do.  Costs me nothing... builds up credit score.

This is what I do.  I make money off credit cards.  The rewards programs are so generous.  Its your own fault if you pay interest on credit cards.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson