<_<  Beat Super Mario Bros 2 (or the secret levels here in the states) and get back to me on that...

So you define "core" gamers and "core" games as nothing but something violent and geared towards the teens to 20 somethings?

Mario is the biggest franchise in gaming. SMG is a mainstream title whether you like it or not.

my mistake. Yet I still dont see them as Hardcore still. Teen and E are not that different in content. I am pretty sure their is no swearing/alchohol ref/suggestive themes within either game. They simply show more violence then the average Nintendo title.

by that logic every game that sells more then a few million each time it's released should be listed as casual.  This just in Final Fantasy casual, Call of Duty is casual, Ratchet and Clank is casual, Unreal is casual and Metal Gear is casual!

not exactly. I consider a hardcore game a game that requires series time effort and dedication(to make, and to play). Casual games play it safe, they try to appeal to the largest audience, use the most attractive trends, and are created with the least amount of effort(Usually). Hardcore games take a more serious tone more often then not, as Casual games do the exact opposite. Casual games have stories that are simple to grasp, thats if they have a story at all. Casual games steer clear of complications such as confusing controls, etc.

The closest game I think Nintendo makes that is ALMOST hardcore I feel is Zelda. The game dabbles in some deep meanings and gameplay, yet not enough to make it officially hardcore.

GTA

Most Racing games(need for speed)

Most Movie based games(Wolverine)

etc

they are all casual as well. These in particular are mostly created for a quick cash in.

That... is... just simply wrong... on so many levels... <_<... the simple fact that you failed right off the bat with how you said casual games are made with little effort and little money yet you list Mario and SMG cost 20 million to make... because it had so much time and effort put into them... don't even start on game stories cause most are about as deep and intellectually satisfying as a glass of water.  Meaning that VERY few games dabble in these deeper meaning past something a 7th grader could understand and that's 90% of Mature rated games.  Honestly the ones that do dabble in deeper meanings from my experience have been rated E... but since you obviously spend your time playing your definition of "core" games you probably wouldn't know of these games...

I wasn't saying all Casual games follow that exactly, just some. Yet those are the traits casual games have in common. SMG and Wii Sports are big budget titles yet they....

Maintain a Everyone appeal

Use bright color schemes in layout to keep interest(psychological)

Dont make anything too deep or confusing

simple control scheme to keep accessable

Lack gratuitous violence(not a bad thing mind you)

Dont require the player to dedicate extreme hours of play(like shooters and RPGs)

Goodnight folks!

The only three I'd argue against is Final Fantasy, Unreal, and Metal Gear.

Those series cater to a hardcore base and have definite ceilings due to their genre.

the fact is any of those could sell higher then their "ceilings" as long as new customers are brought into gaming, introduced to those series and like them, but then again by the time new gamers come in they'll have some term to put those gamers down too.  PS1 era it was jocks with their dumb sports games now it's casuals and their stupid casual games what next :P