Xenogears is an example of a complex storyline. It wasn't awful it just wasn't very good.

Buh?

It had some of the best and most affecting moments in the series, it just required you to pay attention and think about the implications of the things being said. "And so House Solidor lives on" is one of the most powerful lines in any game, ever.

@sparticus112b:

What makes Xenogears complex? Don't just give an example!

 I totally agree.

Yay! I finally have a reason to post this!

You had to do it, didn't you.

You had to compare the game to Star Wars.

No, no. Let me guess. Vaan is Luke, Ashe is Leia, Balthier is Han Solo, Fran is Chewbacca, Gabranth is Darth Vader, Basch is Obi Wan Kenobi, and just for flavor we're going to pretend that Penelo has a role and I can't think of and Larsa is, oh Hell I don't know, Lando Calrissian or something. That about right?

No.

To pretend that every sotry which involves a conflict with an empire is somehow cribbing off of Star Was is both asinine and lazy. Nevermind the fact that Final Fantasy XII doesn't actually largely revolve around the crushing encroachment of one empire but is actually about the expansionist conquests of two of them and hhow that results in conflicts that gets smaller kingdoms caught in the middle, nevermind that Vaan isn't the hero of the story and Ashe isn't relegated to being a girl on someone's arm and Basch is thee primary hero role fulfiller and Balthier has a reason to fight without any crappy love story and Fran's story is primarily one of exile and Penelo is there fo her ability to help Vaan hold onto his humanity and Gabranth isn't even in the same neighborhood as Darth Vader and there is no Evil Emperor, ignore the fact that this game is about the relationship between gods and men, between men and destiny itself! This involves a big empire and some people are waging guerilla warfare, it must be cribbing off of Star Wars!

No. I reject that.

The primary conflicts and resolutions in Final Fantasy XII are linked by two things, thematically: the first is conflict within a family, and the second is the conflict between man and the uncaring arbiters of his destiny. There is no good and evil in this story, there are only people with differing ideologies who see different routes to achieving the same goals (and all of them involve violence). The overarching conflict between House Solidor and the Senate of Archades and the even larger conflict with Rosaria lends context and meaning to the smaller conflict between Archades and Dalmasca, and beneath that the events surrounding Ashe and her rights of ascension. In Final Fantasy XII, as in history throughout thousands of years, royalty dictates the course of events, and the actions of royalty are what determine the fate of civilization. Yes, there's magic! Yes, there are airships! Hey-o, there's a guy in full body armor who is related to the hero! None of those things are taken from Star Wars.

Star Wars isn't cut from the same cloth as FFXII. The former is a story about the hero's journey for power and the ability to fight - the latter is about having that power and trying to decide whether or not to use it.

I could go on, but I think I've yakked at you long enough.

For example Mass Effect and Xenogears.

Final Fantasy 12's storyline was very political but not complex. But thats my opinion though.

To each his own I guess. For me I can't understand why my best friend didn't like Xenogears or Xenosaga, of course his favorite movie is Wrong Turn so....what can you do.

Sparticus, G-Value, I don't want examples, I want reasons. I can't operate off of examples.

I loved the game and I loved the combat. It was the first FF I actually finished through to the end. The story was sufficient, but far from astounding, however, the main character was unsympathetic and bland. Balthier and Fran, on the other hand...

Oh, and the voice acting was top notch.

That would take to long.

Come on, give us a reason. Any lazy fool can give an example. Why were they complex?