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vlad321 on 30 April 2009
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:

Also Vlad, the fact that you live in the South is going to skew things.

 

Edit: Not particularly sure of the particular credibility of this graph... but i've seen similar studies.

 

I've actually lived in CT for two years. I agree, people are smarter up there in general. I should say that people are just better educated. Also if you notice, the "smarter" states have a lot less population than the "stupider" states. Also liek I said earlier, my mom's IQ grew 35 points in 30 points. The test doesn't show anything and it's easier to practice for and is more useless than the SATs.

So then on what basis do you judge America's intellegence vs other countries?  Just how it seems to you?

Cause it should be noted that culturally Americans seem to be a lot more outspoken as well.

 

Wait, I thought this was average immigrant vs average American. As for other countries, people aren't not necassarily smarter, just a lot better educated. Ultimately, there's very little difference between someone that's not educated and simply a stupid person.

 

Well average immigrant... note that on the above chart the states that have the most immigrants tend to do worse.  Unless you want to ignore illegal immigrants.  They do get free public schooling though and are part of the ratings however.

I'm still not seeing where your drawing your conclusions from though.  The US earlier education sytems are horrible... but we still have probably the best university system in the world... and the vast majority of College students are in fact still Americans.

Hence why US a larger "standard deviation" of intellegence.

Are stupid people are really stupid.... but are smart people are really smart... and this also includes locals.

I'd bet you there are plenty of school systems that would rank up against any school system in europe.

It's just we have a bunch of bad school systems as well that are usually centered around poor areas and areas with tons of immigrants.

 

I dont; count illegal immigrants neither towards americans nor the other immigrants. Your average immigrant will be far more intelligent than your average american here in the US. Bashing immigrants from americans is like biting the hand tht feeds you while saying it doesn't feed you at all.

Also earilier education is just as important. Far more people don't even go to universities as shown by this:

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2002/R02T040.htm

Even from those, only a few actually stand out internationally:

http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/

After 20th plaace it's all up for grabs.

 

 

So... then you'll never quote world wide education standards then? Since illegal immigrants are counted?  Also... as for number of people to have completed a college education...

Is that even relevent really?   I mean most jobs don't require college education... and I honestly don't think colleges make smart people.  I think smart people go to college.  America having lesser graduation rates per person would largely be do to the wage divide and the importance placed on community colleges. 

I mean... do you really think college has made you any smarter?  Or did it just teach you to do stuff?

 

 

Ok what the hell is your argument here? Legal immigrants, on average, are smarter than your average American, they are also more educated. Also we both agree that the elementary-high education is utter crap in the US. Also being uneducated is just as bad as being outright stupid. So.... what's your point again?

Does US also have more/better colleges? Yes, and only a quarter or so of its inhabitants actually graduate from them. IQ is a worthless PoS test that anyone can practice for. And what else?

Edit: that 25% statistic is based on residents, immigrant or not, and a large percentage of the population of the best colleges is from iternational students.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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Kasz216 on 30 April 2009
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:

Also Vlad, the fact that you live in the South is going to skew things.

 

Edit: Not particularly sure of the particular credibility of this graph... but i've seen similar studies.

 

I've actually lived in CT for two years. I agree, people are smarter up there in general. I should say that people are just better educated. Also if you notice, the "smarter" states have a lot less population than the "stupider" states. Also liek I said earlier, my mom's IQ grew 35 points in 30 points. The test doesn't show anything and it's easier to practice for and is more useless than the SATs.

So then on what basis do you judge America's intellegence vs other countries?  Just how it seems to you?

Cause it should be noted that culturally Americans seem to be a lot more outspoken as well.

 

Wait, I thought this was average immigrant vs average American. As for other countries, people aren't not necassarily smarter, just a lot better educated. Ultimately, there's very little difference between someone that's not educated and simply a stupid person.

 

Well average immigrant... note that on the above chart the states that have the most immigrants tend to do worse.  Unless you want to ignore illegal immigrants.  They do get free public schooling though and are part of the ratings however.

I'm still not seeing where your drawing your conclusions from though.  The US earlier education sytems are horrible... but we still have probably the best university system in the world... and the vast majority of College students are in fact still Americans.

Hence why US a larger "standard deviation" of intellegence.

Are stupid people are really stupid.... but are smart people are really smart... and this also includes locals.

I'd bet you there are plenty of school systems that would rank up against any school system in europe.

It's just we have a bunch of bad school systems as well that are usually centered around poor areas and areas with tons of immigrants.

 

I dont; count illegal immigrants neither towards americans nor the other immigrants. Your average immigrant will be far more intelligent than your average american here in the US. Bashing immigrants from americans is like biting the hand tht feeds you while saying it doesn't feed you at all.

Also earilier education is just as important. Far more people don't even go to universities as shown by this:

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2002/R02T040.htm

Even from those, only a few actually stand out internationally:

http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/

After 20th plaace it's all up for grabs.

 

 

So... then you'll never quote world wide education standards then? Since illegal immigrants are counted?  Also... as for number of people to have completed a college education...

Is that even relevent really?   I mean most jobs don't require college education... and I honestly don't think colleges make smart people.  I think smart people go to college.  America having lesser graduation rates per person would largely be do to the wage divide and the importance placed on community colleges. 

I mean... do you really think college has made you any smarter?  Or did it just teach you to do stuff?

 

 

Ok what the hell is your argument here? Legal immigrants, on average, are smarter than your average American, they are also more educated. Also we both agree that the elementary-high education is utter crap in the US. Also being uneducated is just as bad as being outright stupid. So.... what's your point again?

Does US also have more/better colleges? Yes, and only a quarter or so of its inhabitants actually graduate from them. IQ is a worthless PoS test that anyone can practice for. And what else?

Edit: that 25% statistic is based on residents, immigrant or not, and a large percentage of the population of the best colleges is from iternational students.

My arguement is your cherrypicking all your data to make hilarious and pointless conclusions.

Why only legal immigrants?  I'd guess if your numbers do bear out....  of which you've provided no proof.   They're likely the same for all western europeon nations.

Why is not having a college degree being undereducated when not all jobs require a college education?  Am I better off working at Mcdonalds because i have a 4 year degree in English?




Kasz216 on 30 April 2009

Lets throw this in perspective for your argument Vlad. The top 10 immigrant groups that come to the us.

Mexico
China
Phillipines
India
Colombia
Haiti
Cuba
Vietnam
Domincian Republic
Korea.

India and Korea fit the "smarter then the US" bill... but that's about it.



vlad321 on 01 May 2009
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:

Also Vlad, the fact that you live in the South is going to skew things.

 

Edit: Not particularly sure of the particular credibility of this graph... but i've seen similar studies.

 

I've actually lived in CT for two years. I agree, people are smarter up there in general. I should say that people are just better educated. Also if you notice, the "smarter" states have a lot less population than the "stupider" states. Also liek I said earlier, my mom's IQ grew 35 points in 30 points. The test doesn't show anything and it's easier to practice for and is more useless than the SATs.

So then on what basis do you judge America's intellegence vs other countries?  Just how it seems to you?

Cause it should be noted that culturally Americans seem to be a lot more outspoken as well.

 

Wait, I thought this was average immigrant vs average American. As for other countries, people aren't not necassarily smarter, just a lot better educated. Ultimately, there's very little difference between someone that's not educated and simply a stupid person.

 

Well average immigrant... note that on the above chart the states that have the most immigrants tend to do worse.  Unless you want to ignore illegal immigrants.  They do get free public schooling though and are part of the ratings however.

I'm still not seeing where your drawing your conclusions from though.  The US earlier education sytems are horrible... but we still have probably the best university system in the world... and the vast majority of College students are in fact still Americans.

Hence why US a larger "standard deviation" of intellegence.

Are stupid people are really stupid.... but are smart people are really smart... and this also includes locals.

I'd bet you there are plenty of school systems that would rank up against any school system in europe.

It's just we have a bunch of bad school systems as well that are usually centered around poor areas and areas with tons of immigrants.

 

I dont; count illegal immigrants neither towards americans nor the other immigrants. Your average immigrant will be far more intelligent than your average american here in the US. Bashing immigrants from americans is like biting the hand tht feeds you while saying it doesn't feed you at all.

Also earilier education is just as important. Far more people don't even go to universities as shown by this:

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2002/R02T040.htm

Even from those, only a few actually stand out internationally:

http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/

After 20th plaace it's all up for grabs.

 

 

So... then you'll never quote world wide education standards then? Since illegal immigrants are counted?  Also... as for number of people to have completed a college education...

Is that even relevent really?   I mean most jobs don't require college education... and I honestly don't think colleges make smart people.  I think smart people go to college.  America having lesser graduation rates per person would largely be do to the wage divide and the importance placed on community colleges. 

I mean... do you really think college has made you any smarter?  Or did it just teach you to do stuff?

 

 

Ok what the hell is your argument here? Legal immigrants, on average, are smarter than your average American, they are also more educated. Also we both agree that the elementary-high education is utter crap in the US. Also being uneducated is just as bad as being outright stupid. So.... what's your point again?

Does US also have more/better colleges? Yes, and only a quarter or so of its inhabitants actually graduate from them. IQ is a worthless PoS test that anyone can practice for. And what else?

Edit: that 25% statistic is based on residents, immigrant or not, and a large percentage of the population of the best colleges is from iternational students.

My arguement is your cherrypicking all your data to make hilarious and pointless conclusions.

Why only legal immigrants?  I'd guess if your numbers do bear out....  of which you've provided no proof.   They're likely the same for all western europeon nations.

Why is not having a college degree being undereducated when not all jobs require a college education?  Am I better off working at Mcdonalds because i have a 4 year degree in English?

 

That legal immigrants in other countries on average are jsut smarter and better educated than the average natives. What's your point? Legals actually have to give reasons why they should be part of the nation, they earn their right, unlike natural born citizens.

If you want to argue elementary education quality between other western countries and this one, alright we can argue that.

 



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Kasz216 on 01 May 2009
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:

Also Vlad, the fact that you live in the South is going to skew things.

 

Edit: Not particularly sure of the particular credibility of this graph... but i've seen similar studies.

 

I've actually lived in CT for two years. I agree, people are smarter up there in general. I should say that people are just better educated. Also if you notice, the "smarter" states have a lot less population than the "stupider" states. Also liek I said earlier, my mom's IQ grew 35 points in 30 points. The test doesn't show anything and it's easier to practice for and is more useless than the SATs.

So then on what basis do you judge America's intellegence vs other countries?  Just how it seems to you?

Cause it should be noted that culturally Americans seem to be a lot more outspoken as well.

 

Wait, I thought this was average immigrant vs average American. As for other countries, people aren't not necassarily smarter, just a lot better educated. Ultimately, there's very little difference between someone that's not educated and simply a stupid person.

 

Well average immigrant... note that on the above chart the states that have the most immigrants tend to do worse.  Unless you want to ignore illegal immigrants.  They do get free public schooling though and are part of the ratings however.

I'm still not seeing where your drawing your conclusions from though.  The US earlier education sytems are horrible... but we still have probably the best university system in the world... and the vast majority of College students are in fact still Americans.

Hence why US a larger "standard deviation" of intellegence.

Are stupid people are really stupid.... but are smart people are really smart... and this also includes locals.

I'd bet you there are plenty of school systems that would rank up against any school system in europe.

It's just we have a bunch of bad school systems as well that are usually centered around poor areas and areas with tons of immigrants.

 

I dont; count illegal immigrants neither towards americans nor the other immigrants. Your average immigrant will be far more intelligent than your average american here in the US. Bashing immigrants from americans is like biting the hand tht feeds you while saying it doesn't feed you at all.

Also earilier education is just as important. Far more people don't even go to universities as shown by this:

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2002/R02T040.htm

Even from those, only a few actually stand out internationally:

http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/

After 20th plaace it's all up for grabs.

 

 

So... then you'll never quote world wide education standards then? Since illegal immigrants are counted?  Also... as for number of people to have completed a college education...

Is that even relevent really?   I mean most jobs don't require college education... and I honestly don't think colleges make smart people.  I think smart people go to college.  America having lesser graduation rates per person would largely be do to the wage divide and the importance placed on community colleges. 

I mean... do you really think college has made you any smarter?  Or did it just teach you to do stuff?

 

 

Ok what the hell is your argument here? Legal immigrants, on average, are smarter than your average American, they are also more educated. Also we both agree that the elementary-high education is utter crap in the US. Also being uneducated is just as bad as being outright stupid. So.... what's your point again?

Does US also have more/better colleges? Yes, and only a quarter or so of its inhabitants actually graduate from them. IQ is a worthless PoS test that anyone can practice for. And what else?

Edit: that 25% statistic is based on residents, immigrant or not, and a large percentage of the population of the best colleges is from iternational students.

My arguement is your cherrypicking all your data to make hilarious and pointless conclusions.

Why only legal immigrants?  I'd guess if your numbers do bear out....  of which you've provided no proof.   They're likely the same for all western europeon nations.

Why is not having a college degree being undereducated when not all jobs require a college education?  Am I better off working at Mcdonalds because i have a 4 year degree in English?

 

That legal immigrants in other countries on average are jsut smarter and better educated than the average natives. What's your point? Legals actually have to give reasons why they should be part of the nation, they earn their right, unlike natural born citizens.

If you want to argue elementary education quality between other western countries and this one, alright we can argue that.

 

No.  Not all of them do actually.  The largest group of immigrants to the US are infact "Family sponsered prefrences".

In otherwords relatives of Americans citizens.

You're basing your proof on something you assume.  And like I said.  How does this make it any different from any other country?

Would you agree or disagree that your average legal immigrant to the EU is smarter then your average EU member?

All in all... your points are disjointed, poorly researched and largely based on emotion rather then any sort of actual study fact or frame of refrence.

As someone who is apparently a researcher you should know better and have a more scientific argueing process.



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vlad321 on 01 May 2009
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:

Also Vlad, the fact that you live in the South is going to skew things.

 

Edit: Not particularly sure of the particular credibility of this graph... but i've seen similar studies.

 

I've actually lived in CT for two years. I agree, people are smarter up there in general. I should say that people are just better educated. Also if you notice, the "smarter" states have a lot less population than the "stupider" states. Also liek I said earlier, my mom's IQ grew 35 points in 30 points. The test doesn't show anything and it's easier to practice for and is more useless than the SATs.

So then on what basis do you judge America's intellegence vs other countries?  Just how it seems to you?

Cause it should be noted that culturally Americans seem to be a lot more outspoken as well.

 

Wait, I thought this was average immigrant vs average American. As for other countries, people aren't not necassarily smarter, just a lot better educated. Ultimately, there's very little difference between someone that's not educated and simply a stupid person.

 

Well average immigrant... note that on the above chart the states that have the most immigrants tend to do worse.  Unless you want to ignore illegal immigrants.  They do get free public schooling though and are part of the ratings however.

I'm still not seeing where your drawing your conclusions from though.  The US earlier education sytems are horrible... but we still have probably the best university system in the world... and the vast majority of College students are in fact still Americans.

Hence why US a larger "standard deviation" of intellegence.

Are stupid people are really stupid.... but are smart people are really smart... and this also includes locals.

I'd bet you there are plenty of school systems that would rank up against any school system in europe.

It's just we have a bunch of bad school systems as well that are usually centered around poor areas and areas with tons of immigrants.

 

I dont; count illegal immigrants neither towards americans nor the other immigrants. Your average immigrant will be far more intelligent than your average american here in the US. Bashing immigrants from americans is like biting the hand tht feeds you while saying it doesn't feed you at all.

Also earilier education is just as important. Far more people don't even go to universities as shown by this:

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2002/R02T040.htm

Even from those, only a few actually stand out internationally:

http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/

After 20th plaace it's all up for grabs.

 

 

So... then you'll never quote world wide education standards then? Since illegal immigrants are counted?  Also... as for number of people to have completed a college education...

Is that even relevent really?   I mean most jobs don't require college education... and I honestly don't think colleges make smart people.  I think smart people go to college.  America having lesser graduation rates per person would largely be do to the wage divide and the importance placed on community colleges. 

I mean... do you really think college has made you any smarter?  Or did it just teach you to do stuff?

 

 

Ok what the hell is your argument here? Legal immigrants, on average, are smarter than your average American, they are also more educated. Also we both agree that the elementary-high education is utter crap in the US. Also being uneducated is just as bad as being outright stupid. So.... what's your point again?

Does US also have more/better colleges? Yes, and only a quarter or so of its inhabitants actually graduate from them. IQ is a worthless PoS test that anyone can practice for. And what else?

Edit: that 25% statistic is based on residents, immigrant or not, and a large percentage of the population of the best colleges is from iternational students.

My arguement is your cherrypicking all your data to make hilarious and pointless conclusions.

Why only legal immigrants?  I'd guess if your numbers do bear out....  of which you've provided no proof.   They're likely the same for all western europeon nations.

Why is not having a college degree being undereducated when not all jobs require a college education?  Am I better off working at Mcdonalds because i have a 4 year degree in English?

 

That legal immigrants in other countries on average are jsut smarter and better educated than the average natives. What's your point? Legals actually have to give reasons why they should be part of the nation, they earn their right, unlike natural born citizens.

If you want to argue elementary education quality between other western countries and this one, alright we can argue that.

 

No.  Not all of them do actually.  The largest group of immigrants to the US are infact "Family sponsered prefrences".

In otherwords relatives of Americans citizens.

You're basing your proof on something you assume.  And like I said.  How does this make it any different from any other country?

Would you agree or disagree that your average legal immigrant to the EU is smarter then your average EU member?

 

 

Answer is in the very thing you quoted, in fact it's the first sentence. I bolded it in case you decide to miss it again.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Kasz216 on 01 May 2009

Is this really true though? Afterall countries do bring in a lot of immigrants for other reasons...

where is your data?

If you are a research clearly you should be able to make a good arguement based on full numbers.

Also.  I would argue that college education correlates just about as well with education as IQ does.  There are a lot of people with college educations who are idiots.

College rarely changes how people think.  It just teaches them more information.  Which may or may not have real world applications.

Intellegence after all is quite a strange difficult thing to quantify.



vlad321 on 01 May 2009
Kasz216 said:

Is this really true though? Afterall countries do bring in a lot of immigrants for other reasons...

where is your data?

If you are a research clearly you should be able to make a good arguement based on full numbers.

Also.  I would argue that college education correlates just about as well with education as IQ does.  There are a lot of people with college educations who are idiots.

College rarely changes how people think.  It just teaches them more information.  Which may or may not have real world applications.

Intellegence after all is quite a strange difficult thing to quantify.

 

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/70xx/doc7051/02-28-Immigration.pdf

Page 17. Outside of family being pulled in, people with abilities are next. Also note further down that to qualify as a Diversity immigrant, you must have at least graduate from high-school, or an equivalent from their country.

Edit: ALso about the family relatives thing. My dad got in based on the alien with exceptional abilites, rest of our family got in as his family and counted towardss the relatives, apparently. Generally smart people also marry smart women and have smart children, just a atrend I've noticed tbh.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Maskedpainter on 01 May 2009

Show me someone who says they would have supported Bush if we were attacked again just because we DIDN'T use these techniques and got information to stop pending attacks and I'll show you a lair.

I am not losing sleep over what we did to people who target civilians, give me a plunger and I'll show them sone New York style payback for their deeds.




SnesTea on 01 May 2009

I could troll these damn threads all day long and no one would notice because everyone is too busy quoting each other.