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Forums - Microsoft - 360 DVD data limit is 6.8 GB

Ausfalcon on 26 April 2009

@Ascended_Salyan3

As I said earlier it was my hope not to derail the topic of this thread.  As I mentioned, I landed here from reading MikeB on an Amiga site in threads about game consoles.  And he is IMO no doubt a stealth troll there.  And from there I just found more and more and saw how many people came to the same assesment.  Thats not to say MikeB never states true facts ever, and frankly I'm not technical enough to say if he is right for this one issue for this thread we are in.  But in plenty of other issues, dealing with his twisting of sales statistics, equipment failures, etc.  I have no doubt in my mind he is more often than not a troll.  He seems to get off on crafting numbers to his benefit, he likes to selectively quote sources, often ones that are not valid or are questionable.  When countered where he can not escape the plain truth he evades that and repeats himself on something else.  Its hard to deny that he did not start with the idea that Sony and PS3 are superior and from that he constantly "works the numbers".

MikeB is the epitomy of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

Here is another similar assesment of MikeB:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?s=be810c112e97e13b0366ec028131e03b&p=11340090&postcount=656

Funny enough, right after that post its was MikeB's cognitive dissonance that was pointed out.

 



Currently playing:  PC:  Wolfenstein  PS2:  Final Fantasy X  PS3: All-Pro Football 2K8 Wii:  Force Unleashed  PSP:  God of War: CoO Xbox 360:  Gears of War 2  

Most anticipated game:  Dragon Age Origins (PC)

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MikeB on 26 April 2009

@ Ausfalcon

You may as well note that my actual analysis posted there was correct for the time (complete with sources and all). There are many 360 fans on Neogaf who got upset, but that doesn't change the accuracy as demonstrated in that analysis.

Considering you claim to be part of the Amiga community (and maybe Guilding Light too), who are you exactly?



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Ausfalcon on 26 April 2009

If you think Guiding Light and I are the same person report it.  I will simply state that we are not,  Nor do I know that person from anywhere.  But do what you have to do.

That said, would I also then be all the other folks who have said the same things about how you conduct yourself on forums?  I can't be all the folks saying to newbies across the internet:

"Don't waste your time, its MikeB!".

If people want to engage you in conversation anyway, God Bless!

 



Currently playing:  PC:  Wolfenstein  PS2:  Final Fantasy X  PS3: All-Pro Football 2K8 Wii:  Force Unleashed  PSP:  God of War: CoO Xbox 360:  Gears of War 2  

Most anticipated game:  Dragon Age Origins (PC)

Guiding Light on 26 April 2009
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
Ausfalcon said:

Mike, you have never publically agreed with the tons of other folks who have pointed out how you troll either across multiple sites across varying subject matter.  I certainly don't expect myself to be able to fair any better there.  I've provided links that others can read, and spending about 15 minutes beyond that with google if they care to will provide more of the same.  Let alone the fact that people on this very board were already saying the same thing about you before I ever posted a word here.  They don't need to rely on the assessment of others.  Its all there in how you post.  Those other assessments just may help some folks see your pattern of approach for stealth trolling a bit more quickly. 

 

I thought trolls hardly ever post anything to back up what they say.  Usually trolls just say a bunch of crap without evidence.  Ex: Calling someone a troll without proving the data provided is untrue for the sole purpose of trying to discredit them.

Looking at the title of this thread, I know that statement is correct.  Yet, people were basically trying to say he was wrong about this very basic truth.  Why is that?  Why are people fighting the truth with such fervor?  It must be Cognitive Dissonance (CD) at play.

Here is the breakdown of X360 read speed over a DL DVD disc:

First column is diamter in mm, second is area of that volume in square mm's.

119 -----11116.385 <--- Area of DVD in mm (120mm-1mm for buffer)
37 -----1074.665 <--- Area of center (36mm +1mm for buffer)
10041.72 <---- total usable area of DVD9 in square mm

First column is diameter in mm, second is how fast data is read at that point on the disk:

119 -----8x <--- 8x speed at outermost point
37 -----3.3 <--- 3.3x speed at innermost point
78 -----5.65
98.5 -----6.825
88.25 -----6.2375
93.375 -----6.53125
95.9375 -----6.678125 <--- 6.678x pointe where data from here on out is read faster than Blu (6.678*10.8 = 72.1MBps, Blu reads at 72MBps)

95.9375 7225.143066 - center volume (1074.665) = 6150.478066 <--Area of volume that's read slower than Blu, or 61.25% of total usable volume.


38.75% of a DVD9 is read equal to, or faster than 6.78x (which is faster than Blu-ray)

38.75% of 7gigs = 2.71GB

 

 

 

Your calculations fall flat on their face because the DVD is read at 12x at the outermost point. It's a shame you didn't bother reading the last 2-3 pages. Namely, my posts.

You obviously haven't read anything or you'd see that nobody at this point is disputing that there is 6.8GB of data available to be read for game data on an Xbox 360 game disc.

 

So kindly edit your post please and stop spreading FUD that looks like it's true to the average noob.



Guiding Light on 26 April 2009
MikeB said:
@ Ausfalcon

You may as well note that my actual analysis posted there was correct for the time (complete with sources and all). There are many 360 fans on Neogaf who got upset, but that doesn't change the accuracy as demonstrated in that analysis.

Considering you claim to be part of the Amiga community (and maybe Guilding Light too), who are you exactly?

 

 

I just dislike your lies, I have no fanboy alligence like yourself who goes out of your way to rubbish the Xbox 360 as best you can with statistics manipulated and misconstrued.

Your post histroy says it all as I have already said

Your post history on other sites says it all too

 

If I were you I'd never post under "MikeB" again, because you have reached rock bottom.



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GameAnalyser on 26 April 2009

it means when ps3 releases later HD multiplatform game in 1 disc, 360 would shamefully release in 4-5 discs.



FJ-Warez on 26 April 2009
GameAnalyser said:
it means when ps3 releases later HD multiplatform game in 1 disc, 360 would shamefully release in 4-5 discs.

 

Funny, the only game that probably will end up like this will be FF XIII and maybe FF XIII VS ;)



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1337 Gamer on 26 April 2009

wow this seems really pointless. Games look great on both systems



Long Live SHIO!

MikeB on 26 April 2009

@ crumas2

I find it amusing that some people are arguing that seek times are not important for games stored on optical discs. DVD and Blu-Ray are *primarily* designed to stream data, i.e. - music and movies when are for the *most* part read in a linear fashion. That's why those formats use a large spiral track instead of the concentric tracks and sectors employed by hard drives and diskettes. Hard drives and diskettes are designed for random access, i.e. - programs and separate data files read in a NON-linear fashion.

So what does this tell us? That seek times are VERY important when playing a game that is stored primarily on a DVD or Blu-Ray disc, because the data will to a large degree NOT be accessed in a linear fashion. This is why Oblivion on a DVD has one copy of each data file but on Blu-Ray has several copies of each file placed strategically on the disc... according to Bethesda, the random access times on Blu-Ray were NOT SUFFICIENT to provide acceptable performance:


Sorry with all the trolling I overlooked your actual input.

Of course seektimes and layer switch times are important, like I said so within this thread and commented on to the best of my ability.

Regarding the Bethesda comment:

"Bethesda's Pete Hines also commented that recent reports of data duplication on the PS3 Oblivion disc have been exaggerated, and this technique isn't different from the similar strategy that was employed in the creation of the Xbox 360 game last year."

http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com/ps3/previews/the-elder-scrolls-iv--oblivion-68e797.html

But this strategy IMO makes more sense on Blu-Ray as you have lots of available space to take advantage of.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Ausfalcon on 26 April 2009
MikeB said:


Sorry with all the trolling I overlooked your actual input.

You are not fooling much of anyone Mike.  Here is another great example of you in action.  With the great comeback from someone rational of "are you a bot?"

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=27068&forum=4&start=480&viewmode=flat&order=0#473377



Currently playing:  PC:  Wolfenstein  PS2:  Final Fantasy X  PS3: All-Pro Football 2K8 Wii:  Force Unleashed  PSP:  God of War: CoO Xbox 360:  Gears of War 2  

Most anticipated game:  Dragon Age Origins (PC)