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Forums - General - Healthcare isn't a business, it's peoples lives

TheRealMafoo said:
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:

Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure.

 

You do realize that 82% of Americans have health insurance right?

 

 100% of people in the UK have the NHS

 

Yes, and now a government official gets to decide if your life is worth the $5,000 drug, not you.

 

 You can still go private.



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Rpruett said:
draik said:
halogamer1989 said:
I prefer the US system. Quality vs. quantity and more money in my paycheck. I don't want to get up at o'dark 30 drive 2 hrs away, wait in line for 3 hrs, and get told I will be fine. No thanks.

 

I don't have to do that, and get quality treatment if I'm ill. Don't make things up to try and prove your point.

 

Response times have  been measured as extremely longer in other countries than in the US.  Which in reality,  if you have an emergency and very pressing situation....Reponse time is often one of the biggest, most important factors.


 

Give me a link to the study please. personally I have never experienced long wait times, and definitely not for emergencies: my grandfather had an attack in his house last year. It was because of the quick response of the emergency services that he survived. So yeah ...



 

halogamer1989 said:
I prefer the US system. Quality vs. quantity and more money in my paycheck. I don't want to get up at o'dark 30 drive 2 hrs away, wait in line for 3 hrs, and get told I will be fine. No thanks.

 

???

You quite clearly have never been injured in Britain have you. How dare you make assumptions about our medical system like that.

I've been to hospital dozens of times. They are always within about ten minutes away (Hell I live next to a hospital, about a minute away... if that.). Not once have I been turned away and not once have I waited longer than 20 minutes. And as for quality, care to explain why your healthcare system is significantly lower ranked than our healthcare system?

Jeez



TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:

There are far more infected than ones dead from it. Just in '06 there was close to 60k. Start dding those numbers up over the years, and the fact that each year brings an increase in new infections, and you can see the pressing problem. THat's also where your vote comes in. Make your politicians know what you want, plain and simple. Same with cancer of course, there are FAR more people suffering from different types of cancer. The whole point is, government can get shit done with YOUR money by taxing you. Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure. No thank you, keep necessities with the government (I come from an ex-Communist country, so I have no love for government, I just trust businesses and people a HELL of a lot less than government).

 

Your living in a dream word my friend. I don't even know why you are arguing this point with me. History has overwhelmingly poven my point. We have had rich countries of all types for the last 100 years.

Name one drug that any government discovered? Better yet, name one drug that a company for profit didn't discover.

We have a track record world wide of drug discoveries that probably look something like Private Industry: 50,000 - Government: 0.

Why would you then want to back the overwhelming underdog with peoples lives?

 

Uhhh... Ever hear of Penicillin. It was discovered By good ol' Flemming in a St. Mary's in London. Paid by government etc. etc. Now you come up with a drug as influential as Penicillin that came out of business.

Also, for a bunch of fucking losers who let government do the work for them, those damn Europeans seem to be getting a hell of a lot better healthcare than the people in the US. How DARE they get better healthcare than the capitalistic, private one in the US!!!!



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

draik said:
Rpruett said:
draik said:
halogamer1989 said:
I prefer the US system. Quality vs. quantity and more money in my paycheck. I don't want to get up at o'dark 30 drive 2 hrs away, wait in line for 3 hrs, and get told I will be fine. No thanks.

 

I don't have to do that, and get quality treatment if I'm ill. Don't make things up to try and prove your point.

 

Response times have  been measured as extremely longer in other countries than in the US.  Which in reality,  if you have an emergency and very pressing situation....Reponse time is often one of the biggest, most important factors.


 

Give me a link to the study please. personally I have never experienced long wait times, and definitely not for emergencies: my grandfather had an attack in his house last year. It was because of the quick response of the emergency services that he survived. So yeah ...

From the original linked article.

 

Responsiveness: The nations with the most responsive health systems are the United States, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Germany, Japan, Canada, Norway, Netherlands and Sweden. The reason these are all advanced industrial nations is that a number of the elements of responsiveness depend strongly on the availability of resources. In addition, many of these countries were the first to begin addressing the responsiveness of their health systems to people’s needs.

 

 

There is also a spreadsheet if you want to see the individual ratings.  I'm not sure where you live but maybe you live somewhere with quick response times?  I'm not sure.

 



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vlad321 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:

There are far more infected than ones dead from it. Just in '06 there was close to 60k. Start dding those numbers up over the years, and the fact that each year brings an increase in new infections, and you can see the pressing problem. THat's also where your vote comes in. Make your politicians know what you want, plain and simple. Same with cancer of course, there are FAR more people suffering from different types of cancer. The whole point is, government can get shit done with YOUR money by taxing you. Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure. No thank you, keep necessities with the government (I come from an ex-Communist country, so I have no love for government, I just trust businesses and people a HELL of a lot less than government).

 

Your living in a dream word my friend. I don't even know why you are arguing this point with me. History has overwhelmingly poven my point. We have had rich countries of all types for the last 100 years.

Name one drug that any government discovered? Better yet, name one drug that a company for profit didn't discover.

We have a track record world wide of drug discoveries that probably look something like Private Industry: 50,000 - Government: 0.

Why would you then want to back the overwhelming underdog with peoples lives?

 

Uhhh... Ever hear of Penicillin. It was discovered By good ol' Flemming in a St. Mary's in London. Paid by government etc. etc. Now you come up with a drug as influential as Penicillin that came out of business.

Also, for a bunch of fucking losers who let government do the work for them, those damn Europeans seem to be getting a hell of a lot better healthcare than the people in the US. How DARE they get better healthcare than the capitalistic, private one in the US!!!!

 

I said last 100 years. Penicillin was first discovered in 1875.

Not only that, the days of a single brilliant scientist in a lab coming up with a medical breakthrough are behind us. Today it takes a lot more than that.

And if government programs were only allowed to use medical equipment and drugs discovered and invented by governments, you would still be living in the Stone Age. Science advances the world.

What you want would stop that science (or slow it down a thousand fold).



HappySqurriel said:

Yeah, you can follow the Canadian model where your healthcare system is rapidly becomming one of the worst in the world and (because the healthcare system has become a political sacred cow, and is protected by several powerful public sector unions) you can't reform the system and the only politically acceptable solution is to throw more money at it ...

Health is important, and until people start understanding that and take-care of their health I think socialized healthcare will always be a boondoggle.

 

 This.  The main problem with health care is insurance companies always weasel out of paying everything owed to hospitals and ambulance agencies.  The costs to patients could be much lower if it wasn't for the insurance problems.  The ambulance company I used to work at has had to hire a lot of EMT's instead of paramedics recently because of these problems.  They can't afford to have so many paramedics anymore.  it's a sad state of affairs, but the socialist model is NOT the one we should be following.  Unfortunately Obama is trying to shift our entire countries model after france.  sigh.



tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

Yes, and now a government official gets to decide if your life is worth the $5,000 drug, not you.

 

 You can still go private.

 

Ahh, so the rich get better healthcare. How is that different then the US?



TheRealMafoo said:
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

Yes, and now a government official gets to decide if your life is worth the $5,000 drug, not you.

 

 You can still go private.

 

Ahh, so the rich get better healthcare. How is that different then the US?

 

 Because the poor actually get healthcare. Apparently better healthcare than in the US (UK - 18, USA - 37).



tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

Yes, and now a government official gets to decide if your life is worth the $5,000 drug, not you.

 

 You can still go private.

 

Ahh, so the rich get better healthcare. How is that different then the US?

 

 Because the poor actually get healthcare. Apparently better healthcare than in the US (UK - 18, USA - 37).

 

You mean for the 18% that don't have insurance. For the other 82%, the US is better.