I don't know how you'd catagorize a person that might play 1-2 games religously.

I am sure there are casuals out there (few games they own) that play hundreds of hours of Bejeweled, Wii Sports, Sims, Nintendogs and such, and that's it - just like Civ, or World of Warcraft, or anything else. Sure the content is different, but it's the same thing.

"Software Sales for the X360 are so high because the system is only owned by Hardcore Gamers"

Wow... I just said that on another thread. Makes me wonder if I caused this rant. lol.

Actually, I was never suggesting the 360 is a hardcore only system. Quite conversely, I was suggesting a lot of more casual players (myself included) will buy it when the price comes down, which would likely lower the attach rate.

You make some excellent points about Guitar Hero 2 and Madden, and even most kid oriented titles selling better on the 360 than the supposed casual system the Wii. But still to my mind, those are all still selling to the classic 15+ males, which are largely core players. Not many women or older gamers are buying any of those titles.

However, Microsoft is doing a great job getting a much more diversified line-up this time around, and by far, the strongest line-up of great games of all the systems. I'm sure they'll see great numbers again this Christmas, and if they can drop the price again early in '08, that'll likely ruin PS3's chances as all the PS2 owners will flock to the affordable Wii and 360.

I would say I agree with all your points, but you are missing the most important argument for why the Xbox 360 doesn't appeal to casual gamers:

It costs too much.

Edit: to expand, I think it will do better when it's cost comes down as well.  however, $200 is mass market price, not $250.  It's going to be another year and a half before the 360 hits that sweet spot more than likely.  The Wii has managed to bypass that mass market barrier of $200 by having a pack-in game, but it will be a while before the 360 reaches that.  Remember unless they start packing a memory unit the core is still a worthless piece of crap. 

While reading the original post, all I could think of was Archie Bunker explaining how he really wasn't a bigot.
{smiley} {sorry if no one knows who Archie Bunker was}

I would like to see the total sales of shooters -vs- the rest of the 360 library, and in contrast to other and historical consoles before I disagree that the 360 isn't a shooter box.

I have a friend who quoted me "shooters only amount to 17% of the 360 library" or whatever the figure was broadcast about a month ago. So, I asked him "Of all your planned purchases this fall, how much are shooters". He said 100%, and he plans on spending $500+ this autumn...

People shouldn't be ashamed of their shooters.... {smiley}

i've had a 360 for a month.. and i'm in love with it best system out there by far

good post as usual mr stick

The wonderful thing about x-box live is that you can tell what folks are actually playing.  It is very easy to refute the idea that the majority of games played on the 360 are shooters...

Let's take a look at the data from 360voice.com...

Top 10 games of all time (most played sessions):

Gears (shooter)
R6V (shooter)
Crackdown (Sandbox)
GHII (Casual)
COD3 (shooter)
Forza (Driving)
Oblivion (RPG)
Saints Row (Sandbox)
Uno (Casual)
Texas Holdem (Casual)

So that's 33% shooters, 33% Casual, and 33% other... hmmm

How about games with the most usage in a single day?

Crackdown (Sandbox)
Gears (Shooter)
Aegis Wing (Casual)
Worms (Retro)
TMNT Arcade game (Retro)
Bioshock (shooter)
CastleVania (Retro)
Double Dragon (Retro)
Doom (Shooter/Retro)
Boom Boom rocket (Casual)

That's 33% shooter (if ya count Doom), and 66% other.

Now this data only counts folks who have signed up on 360 voice, but still... it is clear that shooters are definitly not the ONLY game in town on the 360, looks like it's about 1/3 of them.

Here's the link: http://www.360voice.com/games.asp

 Don't like that data?  How about Data from "Major Nelson" on the top 20 games of 2006 on live:

http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/12/30/2006-top-xbox-live-games.aspx

If you review that list of 20 titles, I count 7 (including Splinter Cell).   Still less than half the top played games.  And back then there was much less choice. 

The myth that the 360 is a shooter system comes, I believe, from the fact that the original x-box proved that shooters could work on a console (via Halo).  I know Golden Eye was first, but Halo really showed how it could be done in a way that even PC gamers could see was exceptional.  Of course, with the success of Halo, many other companies wanted to get in on the action, so since then many, many FPS have been cranked out for all consoles, and on the x-box platform in particular.

 I think the 360 is breaking open another new genre this generation of console:  The RTS.  Prior to the 360 there has been no decent RTS release on a console.  There have now been 2 (BFMEII and C&C3) on the 360 that have been well received and many more good looking titles coming next year in the genre.

Both the FPS and the RTS are formerly the doman of the hardcore PC gamer, which probably also lend to the idea that the 360 is for them.  In reality, the 360 is the rare system that bridges gap. Now the hard core gamer can play almost everything that was offered on the PC in the comfort of his/her living room on a 50" TV.

But the casual gamer can also get in on the action via XBLA and titles like GHII, Uno, etc.  The numbers I presented above prove that as well.

Just so we've got this right, a "hardcore" player is someone who stubbornly resists all change and improvement to the medium (which is actually an appropriate definition for some, but probably isn't what you intended). The number of hours spent or games purchased is irrelevant. It's a common mistake, but it needs to be rectified I think.

Perhaps "enthusiast" might be a better term. Using the term "enthusiast" would also help distinguish the people you think are "hardcore" -- people who play tons of games -- from the people I think are "hardcore" -- professional players who play for skill, and may only play 1-2 games a year, precisely because they are the most difficult and challenging. If we call your group "enthusiasts" and my group "professionals," then we have appropriate terminology that not only avoids inappropriate denotation but also eliminates ambiguity.

Im sure MS were the first to say the xbox was hardcore, mainly because it was selling badly and was therefore hardcore?, other may have said limited appeal or failing, but there you go.

To me a hardcore gamer is someone who plays obscure titles or goes to great lengths/costs to play a certain game, importing a console to do so etc, NOT someone who sits on his 360 playing the annual fifa, tombraider or even halo.

The NeoGeo was a hardcore console, incredibly expensive, very limited choice of games, anyone buying one of those had to eat, sleep and sweat videogames.

Like Naznatips said it's price that is keeping the casuals away. The only way Microsoft will be able to attract a lot of casuals is when they can manage to get their system down to $199 or $149 and have a significant number of games like Banjo Kazooie 3 and others that will attract the casual crowds needed to encourage 3rd parties to make games for the system without needing a moneyhat or other such incentives from Microsoft.