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Forums - Sony - Of everyone who bashes Lair, who has actually played it?

Ben, I've spent a large number of posts already telling you what I expect to get: information on what biases influenced a person's decisions.

And you're wrong, there aren't just those four simple factors. Playtime and preconcieved expectations have as much influence on the decision as a person's gaming preferences in situations like this.

I absolutely loved RPGs when I had time to play them. When FF7 came along I hated it because I had the pre-concieved notion that FMV detracted from gameplay (and plenty of person experience to back it up). So despite my love of FF5, had little interest in being bothered with 7. It wasn't until I played the game without bias (and I assure, I played it with bias before) that I realized I like the game even more than FF5 and that it's easily one of my favorites of all-time. But I would never have realized that if I hadn't stopped and admitted to myself that I had bias when I did it.

I'm not asking anyone to make a reversal on their opion of Lair, but I am asking them if they can articulate the most basic of their biases so I can compare that to their opinion of the game.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

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ChichiriMuyo said:
grimygunz said:
Honestly I knew i was never going to Buy LAIR from day 1 as I knew I wanted warhawk more as i was a big fan of the Original on PS1. Now that both are out I bought Warhawk BR version and rented LAIR to see what all the bad reviews were about. after playing a few missions all i can say is.
What game were they playing. I have played truly bad games that deserve 5 out of 10 and this is not one of them.

I honestly rate this game a 7.7 as its definatly not flawless. The only problem is that its it can get repetitive at times.

Now THIS is exactly the sort of response I'm looking for. He says he liked Warhawk, so we know he likes flying games. He says he had lower expectations of LAIR, but they weren't very poor. He says he played it during a rental, so now I know about how much time he had with it. And on top of that, he even gives a mini-review and score.

Thank you, sir.


 Wow, its unbelievable how you contradict yourself. 



PS360 ftw!

Currently playing..........

Gears of War 2, GTA IV Lost and Damned, Little Big Planet (Yes I said I had no interest but my girl wanted to try it and we did and now Im hooked )

 

 

Except that I didn't. The fact taht he delievered it in review form doesn't detract from the fact that he answered the questions. I merely pointed out that he managed to answer the questions and went a step further. But, the fact is that he actually got at the points that were asked of him.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

ChichiriMuyo said:
Ben, I've spent a large number of posts already telling you what I expect to get: information on what biases influenced a person's decisions.

And you're wrong, there aren't just those four simple factors. Playtime and preconcieved expectations have as much influence on the decision as a person's gaming preferences in situations like this.

I absolutely loved RPGs when I had time to play them. When FF7 came along I hated it because I had the pre-concieved notion that FMV detracted from gameplay (and plenty of person experience to back it up). So despite my love of FF5, had little interest in being bothered with 7. It wasn't until I played the game without bias (and I assure, I played it with bias before) that I realized I like the game even more than FF5 and that it's easily one of my favorites of all-time. But I would never have realized that if I hadn't stopped and admitted to myself that I had bias when I did it.

I'm not asking anyone to make a reversal on their opion of Lair, but I am asking them if they can articulate the most basic of their biases so I can compare that to their opinion of the game.

 The thing you're missing though is that the things the reviewers are touching are things that don't matter towarsd your game bias.  Poor controls, badlock-on, buggy, poor animations on some characters,and lackluster gameplay are things that are going to make anyone not like a game whether they like flying games or not.  Of course there are going to be people that actually like the game and others that will convince themselves they like it for various reasons, but it doesn't change the fact it has poor controls, bad lock-on, buggy, poor animations on some characters, and lackluster gameplay.

Regardless of genre biasedness or how long you've played, those things will always be bad. 



I'm not missing it. What I'm getting at is the fact that those problems will be amplified in the minds of people who came in expecting a bad game and that they will be glazed over by people who went in looking for a good game. I do not care what issues the game has, I care about what factors lead people to over/understate them.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

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ChichiriMuyo said:
Except that I didn't. The fact taht he delievered it in review form doesn't detract from the fact that he answered the questions. I merely pointed out that he managed to answer the questions and went a step further. But, the fact is that he actually got at the points that were asked of him.

 Hmm, well this thread has degraded into something bad. Maybe you can start a new thread with a bit clearer of a question to everyone. Something like, "If you played Lair, how long did it take you to make you final judgements about the game? Did you tend to agree or disagree more with what you've previously read after playing? Also do you tend to like games in this genre to begin with?" 

I dunno something like that :) 

I apologize if I was rude at all but all the followup was a bit frustrating to read. 



PS360 ftw!

Currently playing..........

Gears of War 2, GTA IV Lost and Damned, Little Big Planet (Yes I said I had no interest but my girl wanted to try it and we did and now Im hooked )

 

 

You are correct, I really do need to make it more clear what I am asking for. Four years of learning standardized American-English is not enough for this, I guess, because I really think most people still don't know what I am trying to get at.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

akuma587 said:
BenKenobi88 said:
ChichiriMuyo said:
grimygunz said:

Now THIS is exactly the sort of response I'm looking for. He says he liked Warhawk, so we know he likes flying games. He says he had lower expectations of LAIR, but they weren't very poor. He says he played it during a rental, so now I know about how much time he had with it. And on top of that, he even gives a mini-review and score.

Thank you, sir.


You said you DIDN'T want reviews or scores! I'm done with this thread, when you're done with your personal study, let the forum know.


He didn't want reviews or scores from review sites. He wanted something equivalent from a regular Joe like you or me. I think you misunderstood what he was asking for.


 No when someone gave their OWN mini-review, he said "I don't need a review. I didn't ask for a review."  I realize he also wanted the person's personal bias, preconceptions and expectations of the game as well, but he could have been nicer about it.

Also, calling people "sheep" for agreeing with reviews not 5 posts into the thread is not a good sign.  Believe it or not, some of us find professional reviews to have useful information about how the final game turned out, and a game that gets 5ish scores will probably not get played by me, unless it's just morbid curiuosity.

I did not misunderstand, so stop saying I did.  I'm not a child.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

ChichiriMuyo said:

I care if people who like flying games thinks it's a bad representative of the genre


It is, very much so.

But first, some ackground info so you don't throw a shit fit about what I'm about to say. I liked Rouge Squadron 1 and 2, but 3 less so because of the shitty ground missions. I've enjoyed the Ace Combat quite a bit. However, I love IL-2 Sturmovik series, which is just about the very definition of a good flight sim.

Anyway, a friend who owns a PS3 rented lair. He's not the type to read reviews, so he didn't know what he was getting himself into. When I heard he had the game, and was planning on returning it the same day, I decided I just had to play it. Overall, about 30-45min with the training level, first level and second - repeating/restarting the levels a couple of times.

One of the things that really stirckes me about the game is how much your confined by invisible walls. Sure, I understand that you want the player to stay in the action, but an invisible wall is not the best way to do it. For example, in AC on the PS2(I forget which version), there was a level where you had to fend off a D-day like invasion. On this level you had the freedom to fly all the way out to sea and attack the ships, or to fly all the way inland to your base - this gave the game a sense of scale despite the relativly hazy horizon. With lair, you can see for miles but are confined to a space that feels comparable to the levels from Rouge Squadron on the 64 - and this makes things feel a bit "fake", as in stuff is there just for show. And don't even get me started on how large the IL2 levels are, despite being made in 1999.

Controls are pretty much awful. I found Warhawk to be surprisingly responsive, but it just seems to be slow with Lair. Combat via the gestures is just frustrating, and confusing. Actually, I just stop here - the motion controls are about like you hear. Maybe, after hours, I could almost forget about how much of a pain in the ass they are, but I wouldn't want to play the game for this long.

The framrate wasn't as bad as I expected, although it did drop far more than I would find acceptable - especially with how screwed up the ground troops are (aka, sprites not changing to 3d). However, his tv is only 720p and supposedly the game is really bad at 1080p, just almost tolerable at 720p and almost smooth at 480p. However, the sea looks just awful. For some reason, I just think the water looks wrong with the way it reflects light.

As for the gameplay itself, there are things that could be cool, and I mean really cool. However, the controls sort of kill it. Flying around and making slow turns is ok, but as soon as you need to start strafing and juking then the controls just cant keep up. And I really think the 180 move works less than 8/10 tries, unless I'm supposed to be killing my wrist (I really don't think the PS3 controller is ideal for gestures because your wrist are tied together - so I dont think this is entirely lairs fault.) Also, the ground combat is awful and actually worse than RS3. I think the slow mo is just stupid, and how the ground troops basically stand there waiting to be killed makes things even more mind-numbing.

And why the hell does my dragon shoot out fireballs about as fast as an x-wing fires lasers?

 

Overall, Lair is pretty bad. The sad part is you can see a good game in all this, but its killed by the fact that it just doesn't seem finished or polished. The framerate drops, interruptions via shitty mid game cutscene, no clear objective or map, controls (especially gestures) and half assed ground combat just make it seem like something that wasn't taken to completion. In essence, I think comparing Lair to Killzone on the PS2 would be fair, and has more than a passing similarity.

Score; 3.5/10

(disclaimer, I score on a 10 point scale where 5 is AVERAGE. So, 3.5 is midway between bad and below average. For reference, I would give Warhawk a 7.5/8 and Gears an 8.5)

 

Oh shit, I just realized that I wrote a review. Has the OP decided that this is what he wants now?



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

sieanr said:
Oh shit, I just realized that I wrote a review. Has the OP decided that this is what he wants now?
He would have wanted it, but you didn't give Lair an 8.

 



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