Yes, I know how pregnancy is, I have 2 beautiful daughters (yah 23 is young but yah...) I was with my girlfriend through the whole thing and I saw how hard it is, yet at the same time ,although woman have to go throught that during a pregnancy, I don't believe that that should give the justification to end a human life. To be fully honest when it's your baby you see being born (as grosse as the procedures on t.v look) it'sa beautiful; thing that was worth the whole 9 months of pains,ect (from her perspective).

Human life is precious, it's just that we take it for granted. also how do we know that they baby doesn't have a concept of what life is? Brain waives start (and correct me if I'm wrong) around 6 weeks (though limited) into the pregnancy. Now I look at it from a spiritual aspect which alot of people don't, being a huge reason why I think that life is precious. I believe we all have souls.

If the fetus lacks the ability to make choices due to lack of brain functions then why when an abortion is bieng performed the fetus will literally try to move away from the tools and avoid bieng killed. Why does it's heart rate increse, while this is happening. It must have to have some sense of self preservation or enough brain function to try avoid death. Therefore should that unborn baby not have a legal right to be able the chance to be given life?

I believe in methods of preventing unwanted pregnancies. Mind you,if that person is to become pregnant and does not want the baby, there are many people who want to adopt, and that is the better solution. If you really think about it, there's no reason why a pregnancy should not be carried out when there are more than enough options for the mother after the child is born.

See in a scenario like that, it becomes a hard choice to make. The scenario is rare, but it still happens. If it was me having the baby (if I was a woman) and I had someone able to take care of the baby then I wouldn't think twice about giving up my life for it.But thats me not everyone. In a scenario where it will 100% cause death to the mother then I would let her make that choice. That is the only justification in which a mother "should" be able to terminate a pregnancy.

Fuck, it's not being lazy by putting pictures. I never assumed you or Mafoo would change thier opinion over it. There are people as I have stated (mostly younger) who are prochoice and have know idea what the procedure is or how it looks, or what is done to the baby. That is why I posted them, for the uninformed. In all honesty the irresponsible bitch should not have the right to put her own selfish needs before the life of an unborn baby. An unborn baby is still a human being. It is still alive and living. We do not and should not have the right to be able to end that life.

Now, just so it doesn't sound like were just blaming the mother's who abort thier unborn babies. I think the piece of shit guy's who put pressure on thier girlfriends to have an aboprtion if they get pregnant should have a bat taken to thier heads.

It's true we don't know when or if a baby develops a concept of life, but you could argue it has a primal concept of life, on the level of any other non-human fetus.

But I think perception of life and death on the same conceptual level as a human, takes place outside the womb, in the human world, with a concious introspective level of thought. Death is only horrible if you think "I'm dying", do you think fetuses think that or just feel pain and panic?

Materialistically speaking there's no intristic value, nothing precious about life, we're just a reaction. Souls are unproven.

If you believe in souls, can't they find another body? What do you believe about souls?

I'll answer the soul question first. I don't believe that you are necessarily a soul floating around looking for a body, but more along the lines of the judeo-christian ideology. Creation in conception. Obviously this opinion is more based on faith, because we cannot prove or disprove but only theorize.

I do believe there is some concept of the fetus knowing that they are dying which is why earliest recorded at 12 weeks the baby starts to panic and avoid being aborted. Wether that happens even earlier is unknown as I'm not sure if there is any ultrasound video,ect of this being done.

At what stage in a pregnancy can the fetus actually try to preserve it's life by moving away from abortion tools? I may be pro-choice, but I am not inhumane. If there is concrete proof that your scenario can happen at 20 weeks or prior, I will move my scale down to the appropriate time.

In my scenario I gave you, you decided to say the woman could make the choice. That right there is being pro-choice. That is allowing the mother to make the decision regarding the child's life. A pro-life stance would be let nature take it's course because no one can impede on the right's of the unborn child. By saying the mother can make the decisions of the unborn regarding it's life, you too have taken a stance of pro-choice. Now if you believe a woman can make that choice to spare her own life, then why not for other reasons? You've already made it abundantly clear by giving the woman the choice that her decision making is more precious than the fetus' is.

That right there is the copout I hate hearing from pro-lifers. It's the considerations and compromises made based on certain scenarios. "Oh, look. She was raped. Let's allow that woman to have an abortion." Why? That woman's life is not in danger. The fetus is not given a choice. Maybe the fetus doesn't mind growing up knowing it's the product of a rape incident. However the fetus is not given a choice in the matter, and the mother is allowed to terminate a pregnancy to save her mental well being. Most pro-choicers seem fine with that scenario. However, mental health is a grey area, and a woman merely going through with a traditional pregnancy can suffer from it too because of her going through with it. Why can't they get abortions? It's these contradictory areas that I find to be bullshit in the arguments with pro-lifers. It should be all or none. Either defend the rights of the unborn or don't, but making compromises such as these dilutes your stance.