The 'bundled argument' is absolutely true.  Wii Sports would have been a huge seller without being a bundle, but the only reason its sales are this high is because it is a bundle.

I think some people actually do drive cars "in life". :O

But it is a hell of a good game for lots of people who didn't mind to get a Wii bundled for the game the wanted to play and bought: Wii sports.

EDIT: You see, the expanded audience may not see the difference between the console and the disc!

I agree completely.

I never said that stop cheating ~___~;;

I think that the main reason the Wii is selling so well is because it has Wii Sports Bundled, not the other way around

So the success of Wii Sports has nothing to do with being played on Oprah, Ellen, Colbert, live at the Academy Awards, and in convalescent homes, rehabilitation clincis, and cruise ships all over the world?

It's just... BUNDLED, BUNDLED, BUNDLED?

It's a global cultural phenomenon that is making people like you look better. We're no longer considered the scum of the earth, hiding in our basements and playing WoW while we piss into a thermos. Now gaming is a socially accepted family activity, and you guys want to shit all over it and keep the basement image?

Remember, Wii Sports is our weapon against Jack Thompson.

it is not the wii that sellls wiisports, it's wiisports that sells the wii. i'm fairly certain one of the main reasons wii sales are slowing down in japan is because wii sports is not bundled there. without that constant word of mouth, the value of the wii to the mainstream is much less than it could be. wiisports might not be the main reson to get a wii, but for many people it is the first reason. when they play it at a friends house during a holiday or something, they instantly become enthralled in it.

it's the first thing that get them interested in the first place. they might need something more before they plop down 250 bucks for it, but if they never played wiisports, they wouldn't even consider it, or try to look for those other reasons.

If I don't feel insecure of my being a gamer, why would I need validation by proximity to a mainstream phenomenon? If more people are having fun, I'm glad for them. I don't see how this revolutionizes or affects in any way how we judge the quality of the games we play.

Had Wii Sports bombed, would it have been automatically a worse game? Is its success its quality? If the answer is no, why shouldn't I - a gamer - judge it indipendently from its success?

Oh you don't NEED validation.  You're totally right, and should judge the game independently from its success.

I just don't see why so many people are actually offended by the market expansion and hold that against the game.

I keep forgetting about the thread title.  I don't think it's the greatest game ever, and don't think we can really argue that without outlining specific criteria, like best at doing X or best at doing Y.  I think it's one of the best games at expanding the market, and I think the future will consider it one of the most historically important games.

That's really my whole argument.  I'm just sick of all this elitism.  It's as if some of the "hardcore" want the core to shrink forever into nothingness.  More gamers have to come from somewhere, because all the gamers of today aren't immortals.