The dream of powerful consoles meaning 60 FPS + vsync died a long time ago. People just want a high poly count so devs don't really give a shit

Nope.  After reading this thread I was curious about the similar things I had seen in Killzone 2.  Just emphasizing that this issue is more than likely not 360 specific as some people tend to believe.  It is game specific, not platform specific.  That is all.

I meant a retail computer.  Sure PC builders can bargain hunt their pants off and make a decent system for $350, but that's a custom build which the general public has no knowledge of how to put together much less where to go for all those random deals he found.  Free Online is a good point for the PC.  I enjoy it myself.  The only games I never play are "pay-per-month" MMOs.

I haven't noticed any screen tearing in Killzone 2, and a quick search of the Internet seems to indicate that it is v-sync enabled (although I did not find confirmation from Guerilla).  Recent multiplats seem to support my original comment that PS3 games will drop the frame-rate, while 360 games will disable v-sync and have screen tearing.  I think this team xbox interview provides some additional color on the matter.

Many users have witnessed what is known as “page tearing” when playing a few Xbox 360 games, blaming a lack of vertical synchronization in those games as the cause of this visual artifact. Is it actually the lack of V-Sync as the reason for “the page tearing” seen on some Xbox 360 games, or could it be a problem with the output resolution and the user’s display? Essentially we want to know exactly what is causing this visual anomaly. 

Chris Satchell: Users are correct; “Page tearing” is an artifact of changing the displayed frame of the game while the display device is partially through displaying the previous frame. Games normally choose to wait for the v-sync signal from the console to know that it is safe to swap to the new game frame in a way that will not be perceived by users. Often there is some dead-time while waiting for the v-sync signal; a buffer to make sure the game always is ready at the right time. Some games choose to cut the timing extremely tight to get more into each game frame and if for any reason a frame is not ready for the v-sync they change the frame anyway. This can result in a visual tear, but means the game-play remains smooth with no jitters. Other games decide to run a maximum consistent frame-rate that does not match exactly to the v-sync patterns this can result in higher fidelity control, but with occasional tearing (the vast majority of frames are absolutely fine). 


We have experienced noticeable “page tearing” in Perfect Dark Zero particularly, especially when looking around horizontally. Does Microsoft force developers to meet a minimum framerate, even if they have to turn off V-Sync? 

Chris Satchell: We always want the best experience for Xbox 360 gamers and we often work with development teams to find the right balance between content, smooth gameplay and visual stability. Different genres of games give excellent experiences at different frame-rates and developers strive to make the very best games, this is where we focus our efforts rather than target a specific number. However, having said that, the vast majority of games choose to run at a constant 30 or 60fps. 


Should we expect to see improvements on this problem area now that developers are moving into the second generation of games? We were concerned when seeing the same problem in upcoming games like Shadowrun. 

Chris Satchell: Remember Shadowrun was a work-in-progress at E3. There is a huge amount of work the team will be doing before release to optimize and tune the visual experience. For E3 the team focused on the amazing innovation of having Xbox 360 gamers and Windows gamers compete in real-time in the same game world. In answer to the 2nd generation of Xbox 360 games; you will see leaps in graphics fidelity this holiday as developers become much more experienced with our system and we get the benefits from our continued innovation and investment in software and services. 


Are there any recommendations for consumers to possibly alleviate the problem? 

Chris Satchell: There isn’t anything I would recommend for consumers that can help alleviate the problem. I think when gamers get their hands on this years 2nd generation Xbox 360 titles they will be blown away with the visual excellence. So my only advice would be; make sure you have an Xbox 360 this holiday.

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1607/Xbox-360-VSync-Issues-Demystified/p1

I wonder how much marketing has to do with it. High detail games make very good looking bullshots.

Perfect dark zero? Thats a launch title , how old is this interview? because if it is when PDZ came out then it is mute

Uncharted is a prime example of documented screen tearing on a PS3 game. I wasn't saying Killzone 2 had tearing, just a possibility. I googled "Killzone 2 screen tearing" and found many articles and claims but nothing had any solid evidence in my brief search.

There's nothing about torn frames in all 5 videos and articles Digital Foundry made about KZ2. I read around that it is v-synced, but not from official sources. The only thing Digital Foundry pointed out are some rare framerate hiccups, made less evident by the advanced motion blur.

Basically I'd go with the "there's no tear" opinion, as I can't see why DF would not have pointed it out and measured it. It's part of their default assessment.

On the other side yes, it's evident in Uncharted when you quickly pan horizontally the camera in some points of the game.

You are probably right.  Killzone 2 just has a lot more loading hickups and things of that nature that I am sure I was confusing this with.

Obviously this is an older interview, but it is very relevant to this discussion.  Many people on this thread have tried to claim that this is not an issue with the 360, but an issue with the television/display device.  Clearly from this you can see that it is related to the console.  I am not saying that all 360 games suffer from this, or that all PS3 games are free from screen tearing.