mesoteto, you have yet to respond to the following..

Don't you think... A feeling of integrity and self worth is more important than loyalty to the parents' identity?

GamingChartz, please keep it civil. I'm sure Mesoteto is a good father for his daughter and there is no perfect parenting anyways.

I think an apology would be adequate now.

Well, of course atheism is on the rise, that's what happens as a nation becomes more secular.

A feeling of integrity and self worth is more important than loyalty to the parents' identity?


If only b/c I am not sure what you are after, are you saying that the only way my daughter can have self worth is to be completely different from myself or her mother?

b/c as of now her mother and I hold two steady jobs, have been completely faithful to each other, give back to the community, give to charity, help others out, and try to take care of the environment in small ways to help reduce our carbon foot print, all the while going to church and have an interactive relationship with Christ.

So in other words you deem the only way for her to have self worth is to

Live on welfare, have multiple partner, rape and plunder the land and community, and denounce god?

How can you find self worth in that? How can you find integrity in that?

Perhaps you have a misconception about how my faith and my relationship with god factor into who I am and how I am made

My faith is not who I am, a good person is who I am, a kind, patient and loving person is who I am

My Faith and relationship with god were tools that help shape me into the man I am, but they are not the man I am

And like any good craftsman, artist, and fabricator god used those tools to make me, and just like he can make a cup he can make a bowl, hammer, car, plane, ship, the list goes on

What I know is I am very happy with how he helped me grow and what he has brought into my life, (health, wife, home, friends, family) and b/c I know the system I was brought up in can work I will use it to help my daughter and pray that she can reach the point I have

Ok Louie. I see your point.

I'm glad so many in this thread provided counter arguments to Mesoteto's personal opinions. That way he got alternative perspectives and in the future he will be able to reevaluate his own beliefs/values.

Of course Mesoteto can be a good father even though he de facto 'indoctrinates' his offspring with religion by bringing them to church etc. I don't think that is a fair thing to do.

he is fine, i wont ask for oneb.c that would imply his beliefes are wrong, they are not wrong just differnt then my own, what ver path he was walked in life has led him to a differnt point then my own and i wont judge him for that  "let he without sin cast the first stone" as i like to believe

I think you guys misunderstood eachother somewhere down the line.

I know where highwaystar is coming from. To me, the ideal way of endorsing christianity into your life, would be to make the choice on your own once you are old enough.

A girl from my class is apostolic, and as far as I understand, the parents can wish for their child to recieve a blessing when they are small, and when they turn 18 or so, they can choose to be baptised. Personally, I think this is a very ideal solution. You can still raise your child to be christian, go to church etc. but if they disagree with the beliefm they can decide not to be baptised, as opposed to their parents just having them baptised from the beginning.

They way things are now, you can feel like you're having christianity cramped down your throat, by stuff like confirmation (once you are 13, you go to church and confirm your belief to god. We have that in Denmark at least), but confirmation has become tradition more than anything else. The only reason I got "confirmed" was because my dad said we wouldn't hold a party and I wouldn't get any gifts (confirmation brings a lot of big gifts here), and I did not want to miss out on that.

just to put a bug in your bonnet, if i raise her with beliefes that rasicm is wrong like i would with my religion i would be guilty of "indoctrinating"  her of that?

but would that really be bad?

@ Mesoteto: Again, don't generalize things please. No atheist would tell his children to rape, abuse drugs or live on welfare. We're people with moral and values just like christians are.

I think you two are somewhat into this discussion now. As long as you respect each other's views and express yourself in a polite and respectful way there's nothing against a discussion. But please don't take it too seriously otherwise I'll have to lock the thread or give you guys a warning.

why do you write names in bold?