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Forums - Sales Discussion - Valve: L4D pushes 2.5 million at retail!

vlad321 on 28 March 2009
JaggedSac said:
vlad, you keep bringing up the fact that games are dumbed down for consoles. Please explain to me how the fps genre has been dumbed down. And keep in mind, I know your favorite fps games are UT04 and Quake 3. And I know these games are about as simple as they come, UT04 has more going on than Quake 3, but still is quite simplistic. Now please, enlighten me.

 

I need to start bookmarking my posts.Just compare DE1 to DE2: Invisible War. Or FO2 to FO3. Sicne I don't want to repeat myself again that's the short example of it.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Around the Network
JaggedSac on 28 March 2009
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:
vlad, you keep bringing up the fact that games are dumbed down for consoles. Please explain to me how the fps genre has been dumbed down. And keep in mind, I know your favorite fps games are UT04 and Quake 3. And I know these games are about as simple as they come, UT04 has more going on than Quake 3, but still is quite simplistic. Now please, enlighten me.

 

I need to start bookmarking my posts.Just compare DE1 to DE2: Invisible War. Or FO2 to FO3. Sicne I don't want to repeat myself again that's the short example of it.

I know what you have posted previously and I disagree.

Give me sales figures of DE1 and I will tell you why they might want to make the game more paletable to a wider audience.  They would have done this regardless of going to consoles or not.  More graphically impressive a game is, the more money it costs, the more they need to make back.

Not sure how taking out some questionable actions in FO2 makes a game more dumbed down.  Does being able to murder children make a more complex game?



vlad321 on 28 March 2009
JaggedSac said:
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:
vlad, you keep bringing up the fact that games are dumbed down for consoles. Please explain to me how the fps genre has been dumbed down. And keep in mind, I know your favorite fps games are UT04 and Quake 3. And I know these games are about as simple as they come, UT04 has more going on than Quake 3, but still is quite simplistic. Now please, enlighten me.

 

I need to start bookmarking my posts.Just compare DE1 to DE2: Invisible War. Or FO2 to FO3. Sicne I don't want to repeat myself again that's the short example of it.

I know what you have posted previously and I disagree.

Give me sales figures of DE1 and I will tell you why they might want to make the game more paletable to a wider audience.  They would have done this regardless of going to consoles or not.  More graphically impressive a game is, the more money it costs, the more they need to make back.

Not sure how taking out some questionable actions in FO2 makes a game more dumbed down.  Does being able to murder children make a more complex game?

I told you. I still remember my surprise when I was playing as a bad char when I tried to shoot the annoying fucks in Little town, but the game didn't let me. Of course that's just an example. Just can't do as much.

 



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

JaggedSac on 28 March 2009
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:

I know what you have posted previously and I disagree.

Give me sales figures of DE1 and I will tell you why they might want to make the game more paletable to a wider audience.  They would have done this regardless of going to consoles or not.  More graphically impressive a game is, the more money it costs, the more they need to make back.

Not sure how taking out some questionable actions in FO2 makes a game more dumbed down.  Does being able to murder children make a more complex game?

I told you. I still remember my surprise when I was playing as a bad char when I tried to shoot the annoying fucks in Little town, but the game didn't let me. Of course that's just an example. Just can't do as much.

 

So, if they had not made the game for consoles, they would have changed their game design, and those kids would be ready for the picking, and that would have made the game more complex?

I just don't get it.

 



vlad321 on 28 March 2009
JaggedSac said:
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:

I know what you have posted previously and I disagree.

Give me sales figures of DE1 and I will tell you why they might want to make the game more paletable to a wider audience.  They would have done this regardless of going to consoles or not.  More graphically impressive a game is, the more money it costs, the more they need to make back.

Not sure how taking out some questionable actions in FO2 makes a game more dumbed down.  Does being able to murder children make a more complex game?

I told you. I still remember my surprise when I was playing as a bad char when I tried to shoot the annoying fucks in Little town, but the game didn't let me. Of course that's just an example. Just can't do as much.

 

So, if they had not made the game for consoles, they would have changed their game design, and those kids would be ready for the picking, and that would have made the game more complex?

I just don't get it.

 

 

Indeed, another one right off the top of my head. I was tight on caps for the longest time, and tried to prostitute myself. No such luck in FO3. It's a lot of things like that that add up to the game being less fun. It's not a bad game, just not as good.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Around the Network
JaggedSac on 28 March 2009
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:

So, if they had not made the game for consoles, they would have changed their game design, and those kids would be ready for the picking, and that would have made the game more complex?

I just don't get it.

 

 

Indeed, another one right off the top of my head. I was tight on caps for the longest time, and tried to prostitute myself. No such luck in FO3. It's a lot of things like that that add up to the game being less fun. It's not a bad game, just not as good.

Ok, you find superficial things like that make a game more complex or dumbed down, instead of the core gameplay mechanics and engine functionality.  Just a difference in view points I guess.

 



vlad321 on 28 March 2009
JaggedSac said:
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:

So, if they had not made the game for consoles, they would have changed their game design, and those kids would be ready for the picking, and that would have made the game more complex?

I just don't get it.

 

 

Indeed, another one right off the top of my head. I was tight on caps for the longest time, and tried to prostitute myself. No such luck in FO3. It's a lot of things like that that add up to the game being less fun. It's not a bad game, just not as good.

Ok, you find superficial things like that make a game more complex or dumbed down, instead of the core gameplay mechanics and engine functionality.  Just a difference in view points I guess.

 

That IS part of the gameplay in an RPG. Especially an open one like FO.

 



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

JaggedSac on 28 March 2009
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:

Ok, you find superficial things like that make a game more complex or dumbed down, instead of the core gameplay mechanics and engine functionality.  Just a difference in view points I guess.

 

That IS part of the gameplay in an RPG. Especially an open one like FO.

 

If you were to not like Fallout 3 as much because the tone is different, that I could agree with.  But this, no, I just don't get it.  I do not see the dumbing down that you refer to.  A simple action like prostitution doesn't change much.  To me anyway.

But back to the point at hand.  If the game had not been made for consoles, do you believe that Bethesda would have included prostitution and child murder?  And to me, that answer is a resolute no.

 



vlad321 on 28 March 2009
JaggedSac said:
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:

Ok, you find superficial things like that make a game more complex or dumbed down, instead of the core gameplay mechanics and engine functionality.  Just a difference in view points I guess.

 

That IS part of the gameplay in an RPG. Especially an open one like FO.

 

If you were to not like Fallout 3 as much because the tone is different, that I could agree with.  But this, no, I just don't get it.  I do not see the dumbing down that you refer to.  A simple action like prostitution doesn't change much.  To me anyway.

But back to the point at hand.  If the game had not been made for consoles, do you believe that Bethesda would have included prostitution and child murder?  And to me, that answer is a resolute no.

 

Why would people take away mechanics that made a predecessor such a classic?

 



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

JaggedSac on 28 March 2009
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:
vlad321 said:
JaggedSac said:

Ok, you find superficial things like that make a game more complex or dumbed down, instead of the core gameplay mechanics and engine functionality.  Just a difference in view points I guess.

 

That IS part of the gameplay in an RPG. Especially an open one like FO.

 

If you were to not like Fallout 3 as much because the tone is different, that I could agree with.  But this, no, I just don't get it.  I do not see the dumbing down that you refer to.  A simple action like prostitution doesn't change much.  To me anyway.

But back to the point at hand.  If the game had not been made for consoles, do you believe that Bethesda would have included prostitution and child murder?  And to me, that answer is a resolute no.

 

Why would people take away mechanics that made a predecessor such a classic?

 

Different developers.  Different time.  Bethesda definitely wasn't setting out to make a controversial game.  You should probably question why they would use that IP to begin with.