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Forums - General - Who here knows it is illegal to..

famousringo said:
Desroko said:
famousringo said:

So many people here concerned about the artists. Fact is, most artists earn crap money off of CD sales. They make their bucks at live concerts. If you really love that band, don't buy their CD at the record store, go to the show and buy the CD at the merch table. You'll experience real talent (or perhaps lack thereof :P) and give them some real support.



This is actually the exact opposite experience of most of the bands I know, who are almost all unsigned or signed to small labels. The venues they play and the gate they charge is far too small to bring in much income. They make most of their money from CD and online sales.


A slice of text from The Economist:

Seven years ago musicians derived two-thirds of their income, via record labels, from pre-recorded music, with the other one-third coming from concert tours, merchandise and endorsements, according to the Music Managers Forum, a trade group in London. But today those proportions have been reversed—cutting the labels off from the industry's biggest and fastest-growing sources of revenue. Concert-ticket sales in North America alone increased from $1.7 billion in 2000 to over $3.1 billion last year, according to Pollstar, a trade magazine.


Now, I'm not trying to necessarily say that you're wrong. I would suggest that the main reason why the bands you know make more money off of CDs and online sales is because they have a better deal with their self-publication or small label than they would get with a major label. They probably get a bigger slice than the dollar or so per CD that artists on major labels get, and probably can't charge as much for a show as a more famous artist on a major label can. Different markets just have different business plans, I guess.

 

This can depend on the type of band...  Some bands that earn a lot of money are assembled by producers and are designed to be profitable.  These sellout style bands are much more likely to succeed, then the band you watch at your local bar; and they will likely skew the results because they will lose most of their money to the producer.

Now most bands, well call them friends who like to play music style bandswill earn most of their revenue from their shows, especially if you count the merch they sell during them.  These days it is so easy to produce a disc that good bands usually progress further without record contracts.  Think about how hard it was for Johnny Cash.  IME if a band has talent, people like them and they get big.  

  

 



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I'm sick of the crap like "ever cut out a newspaper or recorded a tv show?"

Yeah, that stuff's illegal too, but are you really comparing stealing $13 CDs to newspapers?



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Record a TV show? every cable and dish company allows that, not to mention youtube and VCR recorders.



Uh, no they don't. You can't put an episode of The Office on Youtube.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Wiitendo said:
Record a TV show? every cable and dish company allows that, not to mention youtube and VCR recorders.

Exactly.  Its perfectly legal to copy anything that you like and watch it all you like, but it is illegal to broadcast it to others or say make copies and sell them.  The whole crux of the music industry's right to sue people that download comes from the fact that letting other people download from you is considered to be "broadcasting" somehow.



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BenKenobi88 said:
I'm sick of the crap like "ever cut out a newspaper or recorded a tv show?"

Yeah, that stuff's illegal too, but are you really comparing stealing $13 CDs to newspapers?

 Yeah I guess they are, I mean, that's why they posted it.  They feel both are equally insignificant.

And I hate when people use the word STEAL.

 Whether you think it is moral, immoral, legal or illegal, the action taking place is not STEALING.

 

When you steal something, you TAKE something.

When you download music, you are making extra copies of something and sharing them.

 

If I stole a CD from a store, there is money taken to manfacutre the cd, jewel case, album sleve, there is money taken to store and ship the cd.  And when I take the CD, the companies involved lose those investments they put into that CD.   They also lose the potential of someone else buying that CD.

 

When I make digital copies of files and share them with others, it is a totally different action that cannot so easily be refered to as "stealing."  I know that verb helps your argument, but please refrain from using it, as it is entriely untrue.



Here's a video from my band's last show Check out more (bigger) videos here http://www.youtube.com/user/icemanout
BenKenobi88 said:
I'm sick of the crap like "ever cut out a newspaper or recorded a tv show?"

Yeah, that stuff's illegal too, but are you really comparing stealing $13 CDs to newspapers?
 

 There is a current lawsuit where a PR company used to copy newspaper articles and pass them around the company to help aid them in their PR abilities.  The newspaper they passed around is suing them for over a million dollars for 10 years worth of unliscenced use.  I'm looking for the details, but I'm almost sure it was on digg just a few days ago.



Yeah, you can't as easily call it stealing, but IT IS. Listen, I do it too, but that doesn't mean it's not stealing. Just because it's not as bad to you as stealing a CD, you're getting the same music WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT.

I think a lot of downloaders have deluded themselves into completely believing that there is nothing wrong with taking things that cost money without paying for them.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

BenKenobi88 said:
Yeah, you can't as easily call it stealing, but IT IS. Listen, I do it too, but that doesn't mean it's not stealing. Just because it's not as bad to you as stealing a CD, you're getting the same music WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT.

I think a lot of downloaders have deluded themselves into completely believing that there is nothing wrong with taking things that cost money without paying for them.

 I'm not taking.

 

And there are no things.

 

I'm just adding some bumps on my hard-disk. 



Here's a video from my band's last show Check out more (bigger) videos here http://www.youtube.com/user/icemanout

Fine, whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm sick of arguing about this. I'm not saying it's that bad to download music...but it is music that COSTS something, and the only way to legally listen to the music is to pay for it. That is NOT arguable. What you and I do is illegal, and that's that.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )