That's the thing. I don't want shitty FPSes, RTSes, or RPGs. I want somethign different. I want streetfighter, I want sports games (though I HATE all but like 2), I want something my PC doesn't have twice as good. I can't play old-school co-op on my PC at all, like Contra. Nor can I play Street Fighter or Smash Bros. That's why I say the current gen HD consoles are fucking it all up.

P.S. Don't even get me started on the whole multiplayer and additional content. PC annihilates ANY console in that department, and short of the consoles being computers they won't be able to compete.

vlad I think that your perspective may be too narrow to have a proper conversation with. You're sticking to talking points without actually acknowledging anything I'm saying.

but that's his point...

and as far as I know what Halo Wars did different than others were the controls, and still sacrificed depth (as reviewers acknowledged). not saying it's not FUN or anything like that, but in the end it's the same Real-Time Strategy. and you said it yourself, Ogre Battle works fine. was it because it tried to copy the estabilished RTS formula? I don't think so.. 

@JaggedSac: vlad was talking about killing children.

Hold on let me rephrase then. I completely agree that people are shoe-horning PC games on consoles, and that they are completely ruinign said games. That said, the PCs are for one thing, and consoles for another, as I stated above. The problem arises from consoles trying to be PCs and completely half-assing the job. Well when you have a half-assed replica, you also have half-assed games, unless they are made exclusively for what the hardware is best at.

FPS, RTS, and certain type of RPGs, just aren't made for consoles.

I'd just like to mention that Deus Ex 1 was ported to the PS2.

That's very true, to both of you. Just in general.

The point is that I don't think it's impossible to get these to work, and it's not primarily the fault of the consoles when they don't. I enjoy console first person shooters because they really have started to come into their own in terms of design (though simultaneous PC releases tends to hurt the console-ness of many shooters, like Call of Duty). Same is true for RTSes - "depth" as we understand it has to be abandoned so that the game becomes more about tactics.

It takes very different design philosophies.

I guess my point is that it is unfair to point at consoles and say "they are what is ruining PC gaming".

Ok, RTS games have depth and tactics, Halo Wars' level of both is somewhere around Starcraft or Warcraft 2 even, in all honesty.And that there is the problem. Games are basically going backwards. The consoles had a huge start on things like Prince of Persia and other beat-em-up/action/platforming type games due to the amazing controllers. Same with the fighting and other such games.

@jaggedsac

I'm not even comparing the actual design, I'm comparing the depth of the 2d vs 3d. It's not that hard to switch "unkillable" to "killable" in a 3d environment, is it?

It is probably a question of the difference in displaying a child getting killed in a fairly realistic 3D world, or an animated little sprite.  It is a little bit more difficult to give the go ahead from a management perspective when rendering these acts in a more detailed way.  Not saying a company would not do it, but it makes the decision a hell of a lot more difficult.

Back then Fallout 2 had fucking amazing graphics 2 and the chilredn were the most detailed shit you've ever seen!

Man didn't Fallout 2 come out in 1999 or 1998?

The game was great but graphics were never, ever its strong suit.