wel, good for the PC. I like it.

I don't think it's fair to say hat standards are "lower" for console games. Different, certainly, but not lower.

Yes different, and by different I do mean lower. You can directly compare genres from PC to console games, and they are of lower standard.

In what way are standards lower?

Let's compare Deus Ex to Deus Ex: Invisible War. Deus Ex is by far one of the pinnacles of gaming, and even today I'd still consider it to be great (it came on the same DVD as Thief II, needless to say I keep that DVD under laser protection in a vault surrounded by sharks with lasers on their heads). Meanwhile Deus Ex 2 was far more shallow, and hoestly felt a lot more like a generic shoter than did the first one. All I have to say is Universal Ammunition, and that applies to the rest of the design choices made for Invisible War.

Also I don't know about you, but I missed the ability to kill everyone in Little Town in Fallout 3, or ability to prostitute myself for caps. You know, kind of how I used to do in FO2.

See, the whole thing is simplified from 1 to 2 (or 2 to 3 in FO's case). And the most recent example is Halo Wars. That RTS is qutie shitty and stupid. As an RTS it's a weak entry into a field with some very heavy players. At the same time people are praising it as amazing left and right. IMHO the game doesn't deserve a single point above a 7.0, and that's pushing it hoenstly.

You are comparing made by PC developers who don't understand console dynamics, and instead tried to shoehorn PC functionality into a console game. That doesn't work.

Fallout wasn't even made by the same developer.

The consoles have very different standards that need to be adhered to. The problem isn't the consoles, it's PC developers who try to treat them like tiny PCs.

That's what I'm saying too, and why I love the Wii. It provides me with something that's not, in my opinion, wannabe PC gaming. I haven't seen a good FPS on a console since Goldeneye. RTS should never even be in the same paragraph as a console, unless it was giving reasons why it shuldnt be there. As to RPGs, honestly, just compare BG or NWN to current RPGs.

I agree completely.

RTSes? Try Ogre Battle. It works just fine.

It's a given that if you are looking specifically for the PC experience that the PC is going to be your best bet, but that's not true for many people.

I agree about Deus Ex, but for different reasons.  The developers were more than likely looking for more sales, not just on consoles, but on the pc as well.  Their decisions were more for widening the demographics that would be interested in the game, this should not only be contributed to the consoles, but to the increased development costs.

I have yet to finish Fallout 3, but I have yet to meet someone that I could not kill that was not integral to the storyline.  I just killed everyone in Tenpenny Tower just for the hell of it.  The ability to prostitute yourself is a minute point, as are all the other little removals of evil acts from 1 & 2.  Please stop using these 2D rpgs and compare them to fully realized 3D worlds.  The amount of time to create content for said games is like night and day.  And don't say NWN is a fully realized 3D world, because it is not.

Not sure what your point about Halo Wars is.  Do all RTS games have to fit the same mold?  Do they all have to offer the exact same gameplay?  Do they all have to make online matches be about who is the fastest clicker and macro user?  There is still strategy involved in the game.  Might not be the same strategies you would find in a pc rts, but there is strategy none the less.  To say otherwise is to be completely ridiculous.  And the end result in Halo Wars is that it is fun.  Which is what gaming is all about.  Consider it as an arcade rts.

You seem to have a distaste for games made specifically for a consoles controller.  Especially your distaste for FPS games.  I find the design of console shooters to be much more aligned with my tastes.  Especially in regards to online multiplayer.  Parties and matchmaking are something that I cannot live without now in my FPSs, which is one problem I have with L4D.  I am very capable of playing with both a keyboard and mouse as well as with dual analogs.  And since every one of my opponents is using the exact same input device as me on consoles, we are on a level playing field.

And it seems odd for someone who like pc fps games to find Goldeneye to be the best console fps.  There was hardly any Y axis in that game.

This is a discussion that is very interesting to me.