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Forums - General Discussion - Watchmen: Better in almost every way than "The Dark Knight"

Both as lazy as each other

 

Please read Dune. I don't know if you're much of a sci-fi or fantasy fan when it comes to books, but Dune is amazing even if you don't like that genre.

 

I'm sure The Straight Story isn't boring really - it just hasn't jumped out at me. I nearly watched it last weekend but then I chose to watch "Goodbye Lenin" instead. I'll give it a go.

 

I suppose if it makes 170-200 million in the US that'll be ok? If imdb is to be believed re it's budget, then by the time you've added on box office figures for the rest of the world and dvd sales etc etc then I suppose it should turn a profit? I really don't know how much money ends up being spent on distribution / a share for the cinemas etc etc.

 



Mario Kart Wii Friend Code: 3308-4850-9342 / STEAM ID: makepeacefox

"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

"Watchmen" is far better than The Dark Knight / Why does no-one own this wonderful game: Fragile Allegiance? / Speak (Type) Italian to me!

Disloyal member of the LFGM

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okr said:

A bit more on topic: TDK had a $158 mio debut weekend, Watchmen $55 mio. I don't know what Warner Bros. expected, but I think it's settled now that the movie won't be a flop. My guess: $170-200 mio lifetime US boxoffice.

I'm actually pretty sure that amount would constitute a disappointment for them. Still profitable, but less than they were hoping for, I'm sure.

@makepeacefox: Black Freighter is the story I was telling you about earlier. If you haven't read that post, you may want to skip it, what with the spoilers and all...

 



noname2200 said:
okr said:

A bit more on topic: TDK had a $158 mio debut weekend, Watchmen $55 mio. I don't know what Warner Bros. expected, but I think it's settled now that the movie won't be a flop. My guess: $170-200 mio lifetime US boxoffice.

I'm actually pretty sure that amount would constitute a disappointment for them. Still profitable, but less than they were hoping for, I'm sure.

@makepeacefox: Black Freighter is the story I was telling you about earlier. If you haven't read that post, you may want to skip it, what with the spoilers and all...

 

umm - I have read it

Never mind. I know I'm already doing things in the wrong order - reading the novel AFTER watching the film!

 



Mario Kart Wii Friend Code: 3308-4850-9342 / STEAM ID: makepeacefox

"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

"Watchmen" is far better than The Dark Knight / Why does no-one own this wonderful game: Fragile Allegiance? / Speak (Type) Italian to me!

Disloyal member of the LFGM

Sensitive question, would TDK be as popular if Heath was still alive? Compare Jack Nicholsan to Heath Ledgers performance. Jack Nicholson jokes were so strange and they fit the movie so well, Heath was a bit too dark for me and lost some quality of The Joker for me. Favorite Batman movie hands down is Batman Returns though, Tim Burtons depiction of The Penguin is genius and is so haunting and creepy, yet you can emphasize with him a tiny bit.



SickleSigh said:
Sensitive question, would TDK be as popular if Heath was still alive? Compare Jack Nicholsan to Heath Ledgers performance. Jack Nicholson jokes were so strange and they fit the movie so well, Heath was a bit too dark for me and lost some quality of The Joker for me.

I asked myself that too before I saw the movie, but honestly I think Ledger did a fantastic job. And it's true that his Joker was much, much darker than Nicholson's, but Ledger's Joker is a much closer fit to the comic's Joker, whereas Nicholson's is closer to the cartoon's version. I like them both, mind you, but Ledger's version is the anarchistic type who would gas tens of thousands of people just to create some chaos, and that's basically who the comic's Joker is meant to be.

@makepeace: my bad!

 



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SickleSigh said:
Sensitive question, would TDK be as popular if Heath was still alive? Compare Jack Nicholsan to Heath Ledgers performance. Jack Nicholson jokes were so strange and they fit the movie so well, Heath was a bit too dark for me and lost some quality of The Joker for me. Favorite Batman movie hands down is Batman Returns though, Tim Burtons depiction of The Penguin is genius and is so haunting and creepy, yet you can emphasize with him a tiny bit.

 

Yeah I was wondering that but I didn't want to write it and annoy anyone! Personally it didn't make any difference. I didn't like the film but I DID like Heath in it. I don't really know who I think made the better Joker.  I don't think that Heathe's death had much to do with it's popularity. It already had the factors of it being Batman, the excellent Batman Begins, and Heath's incredible performance in it's favour and that was probably enough. I still don't understand the people whoi say it's the best film ever though.

 

@noname - don't worry! I've had worse spoilers. The person who told me the twists in both The Sixth Sense and The Usual Suspects is the person I can't forgive



Mario Kart Wii Friend Code: 3308-4850-9342 / STEAM ID: makepeacefox

"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

"Watchmen" is far better than The Dark Knight / Why does no-one own this wonderful game: Fragile Allegiance? / Speak (Type) Italian to me!

Disloyal member of the LFGM

Yea I still loved Heaths performance in it, reminded me of the graphic novels. As long as Ceaser Romano or anyone emulating him isn't Joker again I'm happy, that Joker made me cringe. When Batman first started The Joker was more psychotic then comedic but once that series came out with Adam West Jokers image changed tremendously until Heaths performance. It's good he is changing it back to it's roots and out of the campy George Cloony type.



TDK was a vastly superior movie, though it definitely had its own faults. I finally watched Watchmen last night and left pretty disappointed.

Acting - Both movies had their ups and downs but overall, I give the nod to TDK. There were no glaring weaknesses in that film and Ledger gave an incredible performance. Bale and Eckhart were good to great, depending on the scene. Watchmen had some great performances (Billy Crudup as Dr. Manhattan? I never would have picked it but it worked) but it also had some pretty lackluster ones (Silk Spectre II was a cardboard cutout with boobies and Rorschach's raspy voice was comical at points).

Dialogue - The Watchmen was all over the place here. Where they used Moore's dialogue, it worked well. But there were incredibly awkward moments where I almost burst into laughter during crucial points of the movie. Neither movie really shined in this department.

Action - TDK, all the way. 100%. Snyder just couldn't resist turning Watchmen into a craptastic action movie for nearly half an hour. Slow motion shots, cheesy techno music, over-the-top violence for no reason. I'm all for violence but after awhile, the audience gets the point. You don't need to keep grossing them out time after time. The action scenes butchered this movie. Absolutely terrible. It's not a typical superhero movie and those scenes disjointed the entire effect the rest of the movie was having on me. Half an hour after a rape scene, I don't want to see guys in tights dance-fighting in slow motion. Wrong.

Music - Watchmen had a cool idea with the soundtrack, but the implementation felt all wrong. I like almost all the music used in the film (barring the shit techno music) but very little of it felt appropriate to the scene and often detracted from the visuals happening on screen. I wanted to tear my hair out when Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah was used during that joke of a sex scene. Beautiful song, beautiful scene (in the novel), just didn't work under Snyder's direction. And what the hell was up with them using so many classic rock songs in a movie set in 1985?

I loved the first half of Watchmen. It was pretty true to the source material and the Comedian was spot-on. It was going for a great vibe and then the action started happening, turning it into an entirely different film that brutally reminded me that the guy who brought us 300 directed this movie. It was as if after two hours of building drama and characterization, he couldn't resist busting out his Michael Bay handbook on how to ruin a movie through unnecessary action and went with that for half an hour. It killed the experience. The rooftop rescue scene almost made me get up and leave, it was that bad.

As an overall experience, it's a decent movie. It could have been better under a less rigidly stylistic director, IMO. One thing that deserves note is the script and plot by David Hayter. While things were changed, I don't feel they really detracted from the story and overall, the dialogue was good to passable.

Either way, it had a long way to go before it would have dethroned TDK as the best superhero movie ever in my book. I doubt I would even rate it higher than Iron Man, thanks to RDJ's performance in that film.

PS. The blue penis thing was tired by hour two. After awhile, it just became an audience distraction. Yes, I know it's truer to the source material. Yes, I know it's truer to the character. It still doesn't work. Put some shorts on the guy already. A few blue junk shots and the audience would have gotten the point.




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colonelstubbs said:
Watchmen didnt have a brilliantly realised and charasmatic villain.

The Dark Knight had TWO

Even I disagree with this. That's the point of Watchmen... Who's the bad guy? Who's the good guy? The entire concept of good and evil is thrown out the window in favor of allowing the viewer/reader to decide for themselves.

Other than doing a better job of showing the reasons for Ozymandias' actions, I think Snyder did a pretty decent job of dealing with that part of the story.




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Originally I ignored this thread. Now, after watching both movies, I can safely say that The Dark Knight is better. I would love to elaborate, but Rocketpig is kicking enough ass to cover two or so people.