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Forums - General - The First sub $200 HD Player

Dodece said:
I would like everyone to know that this thread finally pushed me over the edge. I finally gave in and joined the High Definition nation. I decided to go with a 37" High Definition LCD flat panel. The price was reasonable in that it did not cost me over a thousand dollars. That said I am mired in some buyers remorse. Please let me have no regrets lord.

Seriously I had put it off for far too long. My old clunker was going on twenty years old only supported cable, and the sound and visual were not up to par. Sound was cutting out during gaming, and the games themselves looked scratchy. Even a brand new coaxial was not helping all that much, and who knows how long my VCR will hold out. That would be my primary by the way. Everything runs through the VCR. So the choice was getting to be one of I was going to be spending money so why not invest upwards.

I have some questions for the peanut gallery. The model I bought only supports up to 1080i. I seriously considered buying a model that supported both however the price difference was fantastic. I was already determined to stick to a budget that, and I was pushing with screen size. Push come to shove I would rather have a bigger screen rather then support a expensive format.

From what I understand BluRay runs on 1080p. Does that mean on my television that both formats will look exactly the same, or would the BluRay actually look worse. Would I notice any visual difference at all. Has my television made the format choice for me? Even if both formats play equally well I think I would defer to the cheaper format.

I am also curious that since the PS3 is a BluRay player. Would there be any visual difference between a PS3 game and 360 game at all? Curious if the format has a bearing on the quality of gaming visuals. Obviously with the dent in my wallet it will be some time before I make a decision. Just curious have I already made the decision.



Cograts!  I think you made a wise choice.  In the 37" field there are a lot of great sets that aren't 1080P and the price reflects it.  Unless you feel you HAVE TO HAVE THE ABSOLUTE TOP OF THE LINE, don't look back.

2 pages up, there is a thread from avsforum that does a pretty good job of explaining the difference between 1080i and 1080p.  I'm fairly technical but even I admit I'm still confused other than it is clear that at least on digital sets, 1080i and 1080p aren't going to be distinguishable from each other (assuming all recorded video is 1080P 24fps) unless you have a defective player.  I'll leave it up to you to read it and figure it all out.

The general consensus is that broadcast TV will never go beyond 1080i because it is too much of a bandwidth hog.  Never is a strong term indeed, but until the mass majority has fiber optic to their front door, there isn't enough bandwidth to send dozens upon dozens of channels down the current pipes in 1080p.

The only thing I see you might miss is 1080 60fps from your game console -- i.e. your PS3 or your 360 -- assuming you have one or the other.  Of course you can run at 720P or 1080i which are still hugely better looking than standard def and I don't think you are going to be able to easily discern 720P and 1080P on a 37" set.  Others will disagree of course.

Finally, I would encourage you to look elsewhere -- say avsforum -- for information as the gaming sites are so bitterly locked in battle that the truth is hard to find. 



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Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
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I just found an interesting article. Check this out...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/business/yourmoney/25TELE.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

It talks about the upcoming shopping season related specifically to flat panels. Here's the quote I found most interesting:

"Perhaps as worrisome to retailers are signs that growth is slowing, said Gregory Melich, a retail-sector analyst at Morgan Stanley. “For the past few months, growth in the total TV market has been zero or negative, because demand is not there at these price points,” he said.

Morgan Stanley research indicates that two-thirds of American households will not buy an HDTV until the price of a 37-inch or larger set drops below $600. The price of a 37-inch L.C.D. set averaged about $1,200 in June, according to iSuppli. “When the price goes to $800, 17 million more Americans will consider buying one,” Mr. Melich said."

The interesting part about this is that there are few if any 1080P sets in the larger size that are under $1000. There are NO sizable flat panels in 1080P below $600 for certain. This certainly implies there will be a whole lot of less expensive flat panels sold over the next couple of years to the average Joe and a hellavu lot of them will not be 1080P...



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

Thank you for the article kn. I found the read enlightening and encouraging. Personally I spent nowhere near the average price. Which makes me feel all sorts of good. I thought I had found a equitable price, but instead it looks like I found a fantastic price. Further more the thought that I am well within the averages makes me feel comfortable.



twesterm said:

Being cheap does help things out A LOT. Actually, HD DVD currently has two great things going for it Blu-Ray cannot boast:

  1. It's cheaper. In the eyes of mass consumers cheaper is always better.
  2. HD DVD/DVD combo movies. Suddenly buying an HD DVD movie isn't a risk.
WHAT?

Are you serious? Can HD-DVD discs ALSO contain a DVD version - whereas BluRay movies cannot?

That is an absolute killer-app feature right there - and I never knew about it...???

...

How is this for a promotion - some DVD discs include HD-DVD versions of the same movie - for free. People buy it (esp. for a popular movie), only to discover they already have a free HD-DVD version of a movie.

If that doesn't encourage people to head out and buy a new player, I'm not sure what would.

BTW - do most/all HD-DVD & BluRay players ALSO play DVDs? I know the PS3 does - what about everything else?

 



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shams said:

BTW - do most/all HD-DVD & BluRay players ALSO play DVDs? I know the PS3 does - what about everything else?

 


I think, as a standard, all HD-DVD and Blu-ray players play normal DVDs, and some actually upscale.

And, I'm surprised you didn't know about the Hybrid HD-DVD/DVD combo movies. They are on the market. So, if you figure you'll eventually go to HD-DVD, you can actually buy the combo disc and watch it on a regular DVD player now. Here are some titles that take advantage of the Hybrid.

http://www.amazon.com/Departed-Combo-HD-DVD-Standard/dp/B000M5AJQ8/ref=br_lf_m_1000125031_1_2_ttl/002-0559915-0286410?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=dvd&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04J416FX9W4PMX568R4K&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=306105601&pf_rd_i=1000125031

http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Feet-Combo-DVD-Standard/dp/B000MQ54OO/ref=br_lf_m_1000125031_1_4_ttl/002-0559915-0286410?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=dvd&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04J416FX9W4PMX568R4K&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=306105601&pf_rd_i=1000125031

http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Iwo-Jima-Combo-Standard/dp/B000O77RL4/ref=br_lf_m_1000125031_1_5_ttl/002-0559915-0286410?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=dvd&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04J416FX9W4PMX568R4K&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=306105601&pf_rd_i=1000125031

http://www.amazon.com/TMNT-Combo-HD-DVD-Standard/dp/B000RC2EH8/ref=br_lf_m_1000125031_1_28_ttl/002-0559915-0286410?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=dvd&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04J416FX9W4PMX568R4K&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=306105601&pf_rd_i=1000125031

http://www.amazon.com/300-Combo-HD-DVD-Standard/dp/B000Q6GXW2/ref=br_lf_m_1000125031_2_30_ttl/002-0559915-0286410?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=dvd&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1KR2QHBZPJ7DM6NW425S&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=306105601&pf_rd_i=1000125031

And many others. It's a nice feature, I think. 



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shams said:
twesterm said:

Being cheap does help things out A LOT. Actually, HD DVD currently has two great things going for it Blu-Ray cannot boast:

  1. It's cheaper. In the eyes of mass consumers cheaper is always better.
  2. HD DVD/DVD combo movies. Suddenly buying an HD DVD movie isn't a risk.
WHAT?

Are you serious? Can HD-DVD discs ALSO contain a DVD version - whereas BluRay movies cannot?

That is an absolute killer-app feature right there - and I never knew about it...???

...

How is this for a promotion - some DVD discs include HD-DVD versions of the same movie - for free. People buy it (esp. for a popular movie), only to discover they already have a free HD-DVD version of a movie.

If that doesn't encourage people to head out and buy a new player, I'm not sure what would.

BTW - do most/all HD-DVD & BluRay players ALSO play DVDs? I know the PS3 does - what about everything else?

 


 Not all HD DVD movies do this, you have to look on the box.  What I figure (and this is only a guess) is that they just put both version on the disc.  And I'm pretty sure all BluRay and HD DVD players play DVD's though this is only an assumption since it would be silly for them not to.



Dodece said:
I would like everyone to know that this thread finally pushed me over the edge. I finally gave in and joined the High Definition nation. I decided to go with a 37" High Definition LCD flat panel. The price was reasonable in that it did not cost me over a thousand dollars. That said I am mired in some buyers remorse. Please let me have no regrets lord.

Seriously I had put it off for far too long. My old clunker was going on twenty years old only supported cable, and the sound and visual were not up to par. Sound was cutting out during gaming, and the games themselves looked scratchy. Even a brand new coaxial was not helping all that much, and who knows how long my VCR will hold out. That would be my primary by the way. Everything runs through the VCR. So the choice was getting to be one of I was going to be spending money so why not invest upwards.

I have some questions for the peanut gallery. The model I bought only supports up to 1080i. I seriously considered buying a model that supported both however the price difference was fantastic. I was already determined to stick to a budget that, and I was pushing with screen size. Push come to shove I would rather have a bigger screen rather then support a expensive format.

From what I understand BluRay runs on 1080p. Does that mean on my television that both formats will look exactly the same, or would the BluRay actually look worse. Would I notice any visual difference at all. Has my television made the format choice for me? Even if both formats play equally well I think I would defer to the cheaper format.

I am also curious that since the PS3 is a BluRay player. Would there be any visual difference between a PS3 game and 360 game at all? Curious if the format has a bearing on the quality of gaming visuals. Obviously with the dent in my wallet it will be some time before I make a decision. Just curious have I already made the decision.



Just so you know, if your TV supports only 1080i and not 720p or 1080p, DO NOT buy a PS3 (hopefully you don't already have one). Unless the game itself upconverts (most I've seen to this point do not), you'll be playing that game in 480i (aka. standard definition). It's one of the massive blunders that somehow passed through Sony's engineering department that could have been fixed with a $5 upscaling chip in the system. Good job, Sony.




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shams said:
WHAT?

Are you serious? Can HD-DVD discs ALSO contain a DVD version - whereas BluRay movies cannot?

That is an absolute killer-app feature right there - and I never knew about it...???

...

How is this for a promotion - some DVD discs include HD-DVD versions of the same movie - for free. People buy it (esp. for a popular movie), only to discover they already have a free HD-DVD version of a movie.

If that doesn't encourage people to head out and buy a new player, I'm not sure what would.

BTW - do most/all HD-DVD & BluRay players ALSO play DVDs? I know the PS3 does - what about everything else?

 


Yep, many HD-DVD discs also contain a DVD version of the movie on the disc. Blu-ray does not offer this option.

Every Blu-ray/HD-DVD player I know of also plays standard DVD discs.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

twesterm said:

Not all HD DVD movies do this, you have to look on the box. What I figure (and this is only a guess) is that they just put both version on the disc. And I'm pretty sure all BluRay and HD DVD players play DVD's though this is only an assumption since it would be silly for them not to.


The DVD is on one side, the HD DVD is on the other side.

This is a great idea when you first hear it, then you realize that the HD+DVD combo movies cost too much.  Yeah, you can buy the HD+DVD combo before you own an HD DVD player, but it costs twice as much as the plain DVD version. 



kn said:
Delusional said:

And the announced 42" 720p/1080i at walmart for $699

@regin2005. No, u do not need xbox 360 to use the addon hd dvd player. some people I know bought that because they do not have hdtv but have a 22-24" lcd monitor. They hooked it up to their computer, added the toshiba driver, and got the cyberdvd player or whatever that supports hd dvd and voila, they are watching hd dvds.

1) Whoa!  Which 42" 720P tv at walmart are you alluding to?  Is that the Vizio VX or VW 42L?  If so, I'm in for sure... Just what I've been waiting for.  Currently that about a $900 set.  Yep it's only 1080i and yep I don't give a damn if it isn't 1080P.

 2)Whoa again!  Is there a writeup on this somehwere?  That should be a post all on it's own as I'm sure there are a lot of folks that would jump on it since the promo right now is basically giving up the farm.

For your first Whoa! (sorry, it may not be walmart but peopel are suspecting it's walmart) : http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/24/expect-699-42-inch-lcds-this-holiday-season/

And your second Whoa! (which has been out a while): http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/11/12/xbox-360s-hd-dvd-drive-already-functioning-on-pcs/

And with regards to the free combo discs, I just got 3 for free "300", "the departed', and "the fountain".  But the caveat is, I had to get the hd dvd player (my 2nd one but this time HD-A20) + 5 free hd dvds.  All for just 300 bucks shipped and no tax!  Woohoo!  I'm gonna try to sell all the extra hd dvds and combo discs and that'll drop a 1080p hd dvd player that will have a firmware upgrade to support 1080p24 down to $195-200 bucks. :)



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