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Forums - Sales - Why I don't believe in "System Sellers"

FJ-Warez said:
First, there is no game that can save a console, not even two, three of four great games coming out in a year...

They will help sales, boost them a little (Like LoZ:OoT, great game but dont save the N64) the only thing that can save a System is a Huge Amount of Games, good ones, bad ones, games for every kind of possible costumer...

Yes, there is such a thing like a System Seller, but they dont save a console or drive the market...

I don't think there is any question that the PS2s 2001 holiday lineup permanently settled the last generation: GTA3 GT3 DMC1 MGS2 FFX R&C1 Almost any genre you could want was represented by AAA title while MS and Nintendo were trying to get off the ground.

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Warlord_ said:
@TheSource, Super mario 64 was a pack in, i remember seeing it like that.

I think GTA4 is the biggest game that can make people buy a console for just 1 game.

Maybe in a bundle, but not originally. Not that it matters- Sm64 was THE reason people bought a 64 for at least the 1st year.

@WiteoutKing - not you and your sig as well? <sigh> Maybe ioi should enforce a "cap" on sigs - no more than 10 lines (heaps...).

...

Anyway...

I think its quite simple - its a ratio between the price of a console, and the number of games someone wants for the console.

As the price of a console drops - people will consider a purchase with less "killer" games (killer being defined as a game they really want to play).

And really good (or "system selling games") can count as more than "1" title - they can count as two or three titles.

The Wii would be nothing without WiiSports. By making it a pack-in, its almost treated as a "single, expensive" game - the console itself is free.

...

Setup a table like this:

GAME    -->     WILLING TO SPEND TO PLAY GAME    -->    GAME COST / CONSOLE MONEY

(i.e. for any game, how much would someone be willing to spend to play that game - including the cost of the game. Note that this is different from the cost of the software).

Just an example...

GTA4          -->      $300-$500      -->      $60 / $240-$440

WiiSports    -->      $150-250       -->      $0/$150-$250

WiiPlay       -->      $40                 -->      $10 (-controller?) / $30

Metroid        -->    $150                -->      $50/$100 

    - Person 'A' likes WiiSports, and is willing to spend $250 on it. They go out and buy a Wii + game.
    - Person 'B' likes WiiSports, but only wants to spend $200 on it. They don't buy a Wii. But then WiiPlay comes out, and they buy a Wii + WiiPlay (the controller complicates things as well).

    - Person 'C' likes WiiSports, but would only spend $150 for it. They don't want WiiPlay. But they want Metroid. When Metroid hits, they splash out and buy a Wii + Metroid ($150 + $100 - from Metroid - covers the cost of the console).

Take the PS3 for example. There is no way I would spend $500(US) on it. I might be willing to spend $200 to play GTA though. I also like the look of R&C - $100. And throw in Uncharted as well - $100.

The games cost 3x$50 - $150 - which leaves $250 for the console. So when the PS3 hits $250, I would head out and buy a PS3 - plus all these games.

... 

You can almost define a fanboy as someone who buys outside of these rules - i.e. will buy a console, when no software is really available for it that they must play. 

 



Gesta Non Verba

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System seller should be considered as a game, that pushes potential buyer over the limit of purchasing a console. Which of course is dependant on what other games the platform has, or that people know what other (interesting) games are coming, and the system price. No one game alone sell systems, unless system is extremely cheap, priced around one games price.

For example, my brother has only 1 game for GC, Super Mario Kart. He bought the 99 Eur bundle (and of course 44 Eur memory card), but he lends games from me. One way of thinking, Mario Kart sold the system for him, along with my games.

When i bought Wii, i wanted to play Wii Sports, and there was Twilight Princess already available, and i knew, that SMG, MP3, SSBB, MP8, Paper Mario, Excite Truck are on their way, Mario Kart awaits to be announced, few interesting 3rd party games coming. I knew that basically all my favorites are coming to Wii. But, i wanted to play Wii Sports.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

HappySqurriel said:

The reason I see this as being a far more dramatic problem for the Xbox 360 and PS3 is because people were unwilling to spend $100 to $200 in previous generations to play some of the best games of the generation so I can’t see someone spending more than $300 for similar games this generation.


 They sure did not mind paying for the PS2 now did they.

 



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Once the cost of it and a game dropped below $300, no, they didn't mind.



PS3: 5.51m/51w, avg 108,039/w (up 239)
360: 12.93m/102w, avg 126,764/w (up 625), leads PS3 by 7.42m (up 70k), avg lead 18,725/w (up 386)
Wii: 13.52m/51w, avg 265,098/w (dn 1,102), leads PS3 by 8.01m (up 90k), avg lead 157,059/w (dn 1,341)

If 360 sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass 360 by...
01/08: (008w) +875.8%, 04/08: (021w) +344.4%, 07/08: (034w) +219.3%, 10/08: (047w) +163.5%
01/09: (060w) +131.8%, 04/09: (073w) +111.4%, 07/09: (085w) +098.1%, 10/09: (099w) +086.7%
If Wii sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass Wii by...
01/08: (008w) +1072.%, 04/08: (021w) +498.4%, 07/08: (034w) +363.4%, 10/08: (047w) +303.1%
01/09: (060w) +269.0%, 04/09: (073w) +246.9%, 07/09: (085w) +232.6%, 10/09: (099w) +220.3%
If PS2 sales freeze, Wii sales increases needed to pass PS2 (as of Mar07, 108.4m) by...
2008: (008w) +4373.8%, 2009: (060w) +0496.5%, 2010: (112w) +0219.6%, 2011: (165w) +0116.9%
2012: (217w) +0064.9%, 2013: (269w) +0033.1%, 2014: (321w) +0011.5%, 2015: (376w) -0004.8%
At +0% it will pass it in 358w, the week ending September 19th, 2014, at an age of 409w (7y44w).
Current age of PS2: 7y37w.

Last update: Week ending November 3, 2007

naznatips said:

I think there are system sellers, but I think that there is one major system seller that outweighs all others, and it's not a game per say, but an amount of games: the most games. Simply having the largest wall of games at EB Games, or the most cabinet space in the front cabinet at Walmart, is what REALLY sells systems and determines a winner.

Edit: 2000 posts!


 QFT.

 This is exactly the biggest reason why N64 did not catch up with the PS1 as the SNES caught up with Genesis. Number of games. SNES came out years after Genesis, yet it still outsold it, why? Nintendo kept all of the 3rd parties and thus majority of games. PS1 took that support and quickly had a much larger library that N64 could never match.

So, in all one or two AAA games are not going to turn a system around. Just as SM64, waverace, Goldeneye, Zelda:oot, didn't push N64 past PS1, the 3-5 AAA titles supposedly coming out in '08 are not going to push PS3 to the top. The Wii will have the most games and the biggest overall 3rd party support. This will ensure its lead. 



Soriku said:
@misterd At that time PS1 fans--->PS2, T-P support definite, lower price.

If I have translated you correctly...

 1) Not all PS1 fans were necessarily going to become PS2 fans. Sony did a great job of laying down the desire with advertising when no competition existed, but had failed to deliver games in its first year (or more in Japan). Had they failed to deliver what is arguably the greatest holiday lineup ever (with all due respect to the 360), it is debatable whether they could have dominated to the same degree (they almost certainly would still have come out on top). MANY people jumped from the PS1 to the PS2 that holiday, specifically for GTA3, but the other games as well (I certainly heard that from my students). All MS had was Halo, and the Cube Rogue Leader.

 2) At that point 3rd party support was much more evenly spread. Nintendo was bending over backwards to bring back 3P developers, and MS was reaching for its wallet. 3Ps tend to follow the console sales, and had the PS2 not outsold its combined competition 3 to 1, there would be no reason to believe that greater parity would not have resulted.

 3) They didn't have a lower price. The Price of the PS2 in 2001 was the same as the XBox and $100 more than the GCN. Sony lowered the price in 2002, and both MS and Nintendo followed suit.



shams said:

@WiteoutKing - not you and your sig as well? Maybe ioi should enforce a "cap" on sigs - no more than 10 lines (heaps...).

...

Anyway...

I think its quite simple - its a ratio between the price of a console, and the number of games someone wants for the console.


Setup a table like this:

GAME --> WILLING TO SPEND TO PLAY GAME --> GAME COST / CONSOLE MONEY

(i.e. for any game, how much would someone be willing to spend to play that game - including the cost of the game. Note that this is different from the cost of the software).

Just an example...

GTA4 --> $300-$500 --> $60 / $240-$440

WiiSports --> $150-250 --> $0/$150-$250

WiiPlay --> $40 --> $10 (-controller?) / $30

Metroid --> $150 --> $50/$100

- Person 'A' likes WiiSports, and is willing to spend $250 on it. They go out and buy a Wii + game.
- Person 'B' likes WiiSports, but only wants to spend $200 on it. They don't buy a Wii. But then WiiPlay comes out, and they buy a Wii + WiiPlay (the controller complicates things as well).

- Person 'C' likes WiiSports, but would only spend $150 for it. They don't want WiiPlay. But they want Metroid. When Metroid hits, they splash out and buy a Wii + Metroid ($150 + $100 - from Metroid - covers the cost of the console).

Take the PS3 for example. There is no way I would spend $500(US) on it. I might be willing to spend $200 to play GTA though. I also like the look of R&C - $100. And throw in Uncharted as well - $100.


And i thogght i wold be the only one that has such things in my head. Before i buyed my Wii I did a quick calculation if it could be worth it (lifespanwise) excactly like you described.

 

WII Sports: 100€

Zelda: 80€

Wii Play: 10 €

RE4: 60 €

---------------

Makes 250€ (Cost until know 250 (Wii) +40(Mote+Play)+20(Nunchuck)+45(Zelda)+40(RE)=395€).

After this quick calculation i knew it would be worth it, considering that there is a Mario coming, a Metroid coming, and a Mario Kart coming, and Mario Strikers i will buy, after i beat up all games i have. And we are talking about the first 6 month of owning. After this quick calculation it was a no brainer for me. Buy it.



dtewi said:
I think people might ask why Wii Play is an AAA title.

I think a AAA title is either a game that sells incredibly well and/or is a game that gets reviews above 9.0.

Which is ridiculous, because the standard definition of an A is 90%.  I'd want a hell of a lot more than "just barely an A at all" before I'd call something a AAA title.  And while high sells wouldn't be that thing for me personally, I can at least buy it as a factor.  But for the love of god, people, 90% is not AAA.



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