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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony's "Ace in the hole"...

Erik Aston said: An iTunes channel on Wii would own my soul. Twice.
I think Apple would be smart to make this happen. While iTV sales my suffer somewhat (although hardcore users wanting HD and whatnot will still buy the real deal), it would entrench Apples lead in digital distribution. The potential conflicts between Apple and Nintendo are so marginal (e.g. iPod games) and the benefits so huge (becoming the undisputed digital-content leader) if it doesn't happen it's because of go-it-alone corporate arrogance (which isn't in shortage on either side)



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I fully expect Sony to continually build on their online content. But as for Ace in the Hole, I'm not so sure. It's unlikely we'll see too many PS2 games since they're just so large. PS1 games and movies are possible of course and would be great. But the Wii and Xbox already have their own versions. Wii's in particular is the leader right now in old content, with Snes, Nes, 64, Genisis and TurboGrafix 16, with Neo Geo and some other system on the way. Eventually, xbox marketplace will be expanded, Wii will add new content as well as old, including online games, and Ps3 will have PS1 content and film/music. Not sure which one will be the best, but I don't think anybody has an Ace in the hole.



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I can't see Nintendo merging with anyone - why would they? they are profitable, they do what they want - they are happy. They have even resisted the urge to buy/merge with other companies (Nintendo/Capcom would be cool in my books :>). The change in behavior (for consumers) is a good point. I know a lot of people used their PS2 offline only - and even with this generation, I have to wonder how many people will want to hook a PS3 at all (Sony only quoted at having 3-4 million online users - compared to 110m PS2's sold... that isn't a high penetration rate). But if Sony have some *awesome* content, they can FORCE people to change their behaviour - albeit slowly. And they can market (i.e. advertise) the hell out of this. Playing online PS1 games probably doesn't matter that much to the "casual" gamer - but listening to Sony owned music (and movies) would. .... Find out soon, GDC keynote in only a few hours...



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stof said: I fully expect Sony to continually build on their online content. But as for Ace in the Hole, I'm not so sure. It's unlikely we'll see too many PS2 games since they're just so large. PS1 games and movies are possible of course and would be great. But the Wii and Xbox already have their own versions. Wii's in particular is the leader right now in old content, with Snes, Nes, 64, Genisis and TurboGrafix 16, with Neo Geo and some other system on the way. Eventually, xbox marketplace will be expanded, Wii will add new content as well as old, including online games, and Ps3 will have PS1 content and film/music. Not sure which one will be the best, but I don't think anybody has an Ace in the hole.
Most games are smaller than movies. Movies tend to be 6-8GB while games are usually under 4.4GB. Some exceptions include MGS2: subsistence that is 6.4GB and God of War that is 8.5 GB. God of War as a download would be awesome, though, considering the new release of GoW 2. You could offer a discounted price of $15 or $10. Oh, and those movie estimates include special features but I personally won't use online services unless they include those. Anyway, like I keep saying...the downloads would not take too long. There are some demos that are 700MB or so and those take what, a max of an hour? A max of 6 hours to download most games. That could be greatly reduced if they improve their servers, or include a bit torrent client that all PS3 users were connected to so they would all share the games. And, just like they do now, you can always delete the game and redownload it later. Oh, a lot of games are just a few GB so that'd be like downloading a few demos. Anyway, I think a bit torrent client would solve everything. If the user is not playing an online game the game would be shared to those that are trying to download. Initially it would be slow, but perhaps Sony could offer more bandwidth on Thursdays or whenever they release the games to add to the bit torrent speeds. Seems a brilliant idea to me. Still, several hours to download a full, larger ps2 game would be well worth it, especially at slightly discounted prices due to no case, booklet, and middle-man costs.



windbane said: Anyway, like I keep saying...the downloads would not take too long. There are some demos that are 700MB or so and those take what, a max of an hour? A max of 6 hours to download most games. That could be greatly reduced if they improve their servers, or include a bit torrent client that all PS3 users were connected to so they would all share the games. And, just like they do now, you can always delete the game and redownload it later. Oh, a lot of games are just a few GB so that'd be like downloading a few demos.
Ummm... the MAJORITY of Internet users in Australia are STILL on 256/64kbps connections - and have a MONTHLY download limit of 250MB (or 512MB). Only a small percentage of the population has anything close to 1Mbps, and 10Gig or more monthly limit. I'm on the fastest connection I can get (8Mbps), and a 350MB episode of Lost or Heroes can still take 12hours or so (has gotten down to about 2hrs - best I have done). Assuming that the majority of people have a fast web connection with a large download limit is a big mistake :P



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shams said: Ummm... the MAJORITY of Internet users in Australia are STILL on 256/64kbps connections - and have a MONTHLY download limit of 250MB (or 512MB). Only a small percentage of the population has anything close to 1Mbps, and 10Gig or more monthly limit. I'm on the fastest connection I can get (8Mbps), and a 350MB episode of Lost or Heroes can still take 12hours or so (has gotten down to about 2hrs - best I have done). Assuming that the majority of people have a fast web connection with a large download limit is a big mistake :P
It took you... 12 hours... to download a 350MB file... with 8Mbps? Are you sure that wasnt dialup? my 3Mbps can download 350mb in less than 20 minutes... a 8mbps should be able to do it in well under 9minutes... not... 12hours...



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windbane said: Most games are smaller than movies. Movies tend to be 6-8GB while games are usually under 4.4GB. Some exceptions include MGS2: subsistence that is 6.4GB and God of War that is 8.5 GB. God of War as a download would be awesome, though, considering the new release of GoW 2. You could offer a discounted price of $15 or $10. Oh, and those movie estimates include special features but I personally won't use online services unless they include those. Anyway, like I keep saying...the downloads would not take too long. There are some demos that are 700MB or so and those take what, a max of an hour? A max of 6 hours to download most games. That could be greatly reduced if they improve their servers, or include a bit torrent client that all PS3 users were connected to so they would all share the games. And, just like they do now, you can always delete the game and redownload it later. Oh, a lot of games are just a few GB so that'd be like downloading a few demos. Anyway, I think a bit torrent client would solve everything. If the user is not playing an online game the game would be shared to those that are trying to download. Initially it would be slow, but perhaps Sony could offer more bandwidth on Thursdays or whenever they release the games to add to the bit torrent speeds. Seems a brilliant idea to me. Still, several hours to download a full, larger ps2 game would be well worth it, especially at slightly discounted prices due to no case, booklet, and middle-man costs.
One. If sony implements BT on my PS3 and I cant turn it off. I will not buy anything, and I will probibally sell my PS3. I do NOT have a big enough up-pipe to deal with BitTorrent... and ANYTHING else. (BitTorrent maxes out my upstream, and thus, chops my download to about 300kbps from 3mbps) If I am *PAYING* you. I'm *SURE* you can send me the file. Second. A DVD is compressed in MPEG-2. I have one of the *original* HD-DVDs. All they were was a MPEG4 compression on a DVD. Let's just say. You can fit a 2 hour HD movie in 5gb. I think you can easily fit a DVD in well under 800mb. I got Kingdom of Heaven, compressed down to about 500mb for my PSP. I promise you. Useing h.264 the games are MUCH bigger than SD video content. and PS2 games are about the same size as a h.264 movie. 2minutes for 100megs is a good average guess. 10gb could store a 3hour movie... in full 1080p, high quality. I promise. Video is smaller than games. EDIT: the biggest problem with massive downloadable content, is the HDD. If you have to 'buy' it. That is bad useing BitTorrent, and you shouldnt be able to back it up on a external device. So you would be limited to your 60gb HDD. (or bigger if you modded it) If your like me, it wouldnt bother me much. I'd just tell it to download and go to bed, or do something else. (wakeup set the download and go to school for the kids) But broadband would be a MUST for that type of download. I hope it comes. Especially for the HD content. If I can buy a DVD for 10-15$ and download it any time I want... in full HD. I'm sold. I want it. Even if I can only put 1 or 2 on my PS3 at a time. But I dont see anything NEAR like that in the near future, as sony cant compete with itself. (BluRay needs to win first. If BluRay looses... Sony looses. As in, bye bye sony. Alot of people think the BluRay in the PS3 sucks... blahblah. I think it's awesome. And I think it's great. The funny thing is. Sony has invested so much of their money in bluray. If it looses the HD war. Sony will change. The lossy gaming division would probabilistically be one of the first divisions cut. I dont mind takeing a BluRay player. I've been wanting one for about 2 years now. I never liked HD-DVD. (the HD-DVD disc I got came with my collectors edition of Pirates!) It worked in my computer... lol. But I like the bluray media. Other than the media their equal. BluRay is more expensive to make by a few cents. But still. Another funny fact about bluray. You *can* take steel wool to a disc without scratching it. I promise you. I played frizbee with my resistance disc for fun for a few minutes. Not a single scratch on the disc. I'm gonna love buying used PS3 games. Because the discs are unscratchable.



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Kwaad said: shams said: Ummm... the MAJORITY of Internet users in Australia are STILL on 256/64kbps connections - and have a MONTHLY download limit of 250MB (or 512MB). Only a small percentage of the population has anything close to 1Mbps, and 10Gig or more monthly limit. I'm on the fastest connection I can get (8Mbps), and a 350MB episode of Lost or Heroes can still take 12hours or so (has gotten down to about 2hrs - best I have done). Assuming that the majority of people have a fast web connection with a large download limit is a big mistake :P It took you... 12 hours... to download a 350MB file... with 8Mbps?
Yes - it usually is on BitTorrent though, so the rates are hampered by the rates that people upload at. Yes - Im 100% serious. When I want to download an episode, I budget about half a day.
Are you sure that wasnt dialup? my 3Mbps can download 350mb in less than 20 minutes... a 8mbps should be able to do it in well under 9minutes... not... 12hours...
Tell me about it. That is what I am trying to explain - you guys in the US are SPOILT. You might have great web access - but a lot of the world doesn't. The best I have ever seen on my 8Mbps connection is about 110k/sec --> i.e. about 1Mbps. Truthfully, I do share a house with several other avid users - but that also comes into the "real world" equation. The web pipes between Australia and the US are fairly limited - and most of our "local" companies still host their data on US servers (as much of the world does). I won't even mention lag times... PS - Just saw a report from Nielson on gamesindustry.biz - about 10% of gaming equipped households in the US use their consoles online. Not high enough to base your entire strategy around online content.



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Yup PS3 is based around single player, Wii is around party, and 360 is online. shams - on your bittorrent set a upload limiter to something like 20k/s. That might help. If you are maxing your up. You wont download faster than 50-100k/s If your looking into downloading straight off the net, look into http://gamershell.com They have alot of game related stuff for download, off *GREAT* servers. They give me the best download speeds I've ever seen, and their 100% free. EDIT: These downloadables. are optional. You could get flow after a few hours of download at the worst. Chances are if your internet is that bad, you wont hook up your PS3... and if you dont hook up your PS3 to the net... you wont know about it. :D Sony's online theory is adding more depth to the games they already make. Adding a community side. Microsoft's online, is based around online games, and their community. That is it's big problem. And nintendo... is currently the party system. What you play 2-4 player with. (same TV)



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Kwaad said: One. If sony implements BT on my PS3 and I cant turn it off. I will not buy anything, and I will probibally sell my PS3.
It won't happen, don't worry ;) And if it did, Sony would limit it to say 1k/sec - enough to be fair to everyone.
Second. A DVD is compressed in MPEG-2. I have one of the *original* HD-DVDs. All they were was a MPEG4 compression on a DVD. Let's just say. You can fit a 2 hour HD movie in 5gb. I think you can easily fit a DVD in well under 800mb. I got Kingdom of Heaven, compressed down to about 500mb for my PSP. I promise you. Useing h.264 the games are MUCH bigger than SD video content. and PS2 games are about the same size as a h.264 movie.
This is one of my biggest issues with BluRay. It uses the same crappy compression technology... right? So why not just take a high definition movie, use a GOOD codec, and release it on a 9Gig DVD? Some existing DVD players would already play them (i.e. mine!), and it wouldn't cost that much to upgrade DVD players to support this fully? Why pay $1000US for the same thing???



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