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Forums - Sony - New TV to use the CELL ~

This isn't surprising. The Cell was designed to be adept at streaming and Toshiba didn't buy Sony's stake in the Cell technology for nothing. I expect to see the Cell show up in whatever products that the technology will be viable for Toshiba. This will probably be just the tip of the iceberg.



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Back in the day, I remember reading an interview with someone from IBM who (basically) stated that they were not focused on giving the Cell processor the best performance for games because Sony wanted the Cell processor to be used in everything from MP3 players to their top of the line TVs ... To a certain extent, this was part of the reason there was the early (moronic) talk from Sony about being able to take advantage of multiple Cell processors from various devices to boost ingame performance.

For me, the only surprise of this is that it has taken so long to see more devices taking advantage of the Cell processor.



What else could the cell power? Cars?



I hope my 360 doesn't RRoD
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colonelstubbs said:
What else could the cell power? Cars?

Well, in theory, pretty much everything ...

A couple of years ago I heard that the fastest growth sector for microprocessors was appliances ... Over the next decade, the desires to have more feature rich devices with better user interfaces will ensure that everything (including your toaster and waffle iron) will have a processor which is (dramatically) faster than computers you once owned.

 



HappySqurriel said:

Back in the day, I remember reading an interview with someone from IBM who (basically) stated that they were not focused on giving the Cell processor the best performance for games because Sony wanted the Cell processor to be used in everything from MP3 players to their top of the line TVs ... To a certain extent, this was part of the reason there was the early (moronic) talk from Sony about being able to take advantage of multiple Cell processors from various devices to boost ingame performance.

For me, the only surprise of this is that it has taken so long to see more devices taking advantage of the Cell processor.

 

A general purpose embbeded X86 processor makes way more sense in a TV or set top box.  Having something that's so hard to program makes no sense at all.  Toshiba and Sony never thought it all through properly.  They believed so much that the PS3 would rule them all that they had no back up plan.



Prepare for termination! It is the only logical thing to do, for I am only loyal to Megatron.

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Words Of Wisdom said:
DarkNight_DS said:
This is something that will quickly become a doorstop at Toshiba. Who's going to write apps for it? Who will maintain the product? If they don't sell millions upon millions why bother supporting the product once it's off the shelves?

Why such hostility to this?  Is it because it uses a Cell processor which also happens to be used in the PS3?

Also note that this is NOT the Cell used in the PS3. It has several SPUs removed and video circuitry and other hardware goodies added instead.

 



drkohler said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
DarkNight_DS said:
This is something that will quickly become a doorstop at Toshiba. Who's going to write apps for it? Who will maintain the product? If they don't sell millions upon millions why bother supporting the product once it's off the shelves?

Why such hostility to this?  Is it because it uses a Cell processor which also happens to be used in the PS3?

Also note that this is NOT the Cell used in the PS3. It has several SPUs removed and video circuitry and other gardware goodies added instead.

The one in the PS3 is actually a modified version of the original but it's still a cell processor.



Words Of Wisdom said:
drkohler said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
DarkNight_DS said:
This is something that will quickly become a doorstop at Toshiba. Who's going to write apps for it? Who will maintain the product? If they don't sell millions upon millions why bother supporting the product once it's off the shelves?

Why such hostility to this?  Is it because it uses a Cell processor which also happens to be used in the PS3?

Also note that this is NOT the Cell used in the PS3. It has several SPUs removed and video circuitry and other gardware goodies added instead.

The one in the PS3 is actually a modified version of the original but it's still a cell processor.

No hostility, just simple logic dictates that this is a rather silly move (pointless).  It adds too much to the cost of the TV.  It'll be a niche product with no software support once the systems get pulled from shelves.

The only reason Toshiba is doing this is due to that Fab they bought off Sony that's mostly sitting idle due to the lack of Cell orders.  It's probably at 10-15% efficient at the moment.  They probably produced a crap load of these chips for the TV's and are charging a premium to see if people will bite.  Not sure what they'll do when no one does.  Maybe they'll just include this functionality for free as a way to make their products look better.  Don't think it'll last long.  It's a down market now and they got stuck with a fab that makes 1 thing really well.  There's nothing else out there that they could use the rest of the fab for.  The tech market is too saturated.

 



Prepare for termination! It is the only logical thing to do, for I am only loyal to Megatron.

DarkNight_DS said:
HappySqurriel said:

Back in the day, I remember reading an interview with someone from IBM who (basically) stated that they were not focused on giving the Cell processor the best performance for games because Sony wanted the Cell processor to be used in everything from MP3 players to their top of the line TVs ... To a certain extent, this was part of the reason there was the early (moronic) talk from Sony about being able to take advantage of multiple Cell processors from various devices to boost ingame performance.

For me, the only surprise of this is that it has taken so long to see more devices taking advantage of the Cell processor.

 

A general purpose embbeded X86 processor makes way more sense in a TV or set top box. Having something that's so hard to program makes no sense at all. Toshiba and Sony never thought it all through properly. They believed so much that the PS3 would rule them all that they had no back up plan.

Yes and no ...

The X86 has always been a very shitty architecture and its primary advantage was that it was inexpensive when initially released, and had the most software made for it because it was the most popular architecture on the market. The areas where the x86 is currently disadvantaged is that it is expensive for the performance you get, and is not very energy efficient ... Which are the reasons why the x86 has never broken out of the PC market, and why most devices (PDAs, Cellphones, MP3 players, calculators, etc) use drastically different architectures.

Now, it probably would have made sense for them to target a much simpler architecture though ...



HappySqurriel said:
DarkNight_DS said:
HappySqurriel said:

Back in the day, I remember reading an interview with someone from IBM who (basically) stated that they were not focused on giving the Cell processor the best performance for games because Sony wanted the Cell processor to be used in everything from MP3 players to their top of the line TVs ... To a certain extent, this was part of the reason there was the early (moronic) talk from Sony about being able to take advantage of multiple Cell processors from various devices to boost ingame performance.

For me, the only surprise of this is that it has taken so long to see more devices taking advantage of the Cell processor.

 

A general purpose embbeded X86 processor makes way more sense in a TV or set top box. Having something that's so hard to program makes no sense at all. Toshiba and Sony never thought it all through properly. They believed so much that the PS3 would rule them all that they had no back up plan.

Yes and no ...

The X86 has always been a very shitty architecture and its primary advantage was that it was inexpensive when initially released, and had the most software made for it because it was the most popular architecture on the market. The areas where the x86 is currently disadvantaged is that it is expensive for the performance you get, and is not very energy efficient ... Which are the reasons why the x86 has never broken out of the PC market, and why most devices (PDAs, Cellphones, MP3 players, calculators, etc) use drastically different architectures.

Now, it probably would have made sense for them to target a much simpler architecture though ...

You can get a dual core CPU from intel or AMD which would be more then capable of handling the streams as long as you included a DSP (which is what this new cell cpu has).  A DSP added to an X86 chip will use less power, cost less to make and allow easier options to software programmers then the Cell.  The Cell is still VERY power hungry. 

Nobody programs Cell instructions except for Sony programmers and it's third parties.  Those guys don't write code for TV appliances.  Nor are there enough of those guys who could.  It's just a viscious cycle. 

Also feel free to call the X86 a shitty architecture all you want.  It's beaten all of the supposed good ones in price, performance and power usage etc as well as adoption over the years.  x86 morphs into whatever it needs to be.

 



Prepare for termination! It is the only logical thing to do, for I am only loyal to Megatron.