time to play devils advocate for me, anyone else think this whole thing would have been avoided if religion didnt exist?

Well, I know this conflict could have been avoided if humanity did not exist.

also true, lol, but seriously, alot of the wars seem to be due to religion in some way, im just saying maybe we'd be better off without it

I understand your point, and do respect your train of thought.

I guess the only question that remains is, what is not only a fair solutions, but one that will actually work and guarantee peace?

And all politics aside.... being realistic only...

I think it is fair to assume that this generation of Palestinians (not all of course, but the majority) will not accept a Jewish nation at all.  So, considering that the Palestinian majority wants all of the land, from the river to the sea, how can this process ever work?

And like I said, forget about who we both think is more at fault, I'm not even considering that at all...

If in the perfect world, all hostilities ended tomorrow, how could peace be achieved unless both parties accept the other's right to exist on the land?  What I am trying to say is, hypothetically, if the settlements in Judea and Samaria were completely disassembled tomorrow, and the Palestinians were in charge of their own destiny in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, could there be peace?

That's my biggest point really.  Palestinian textbooks still do not even show Israel on the map... so this and the last few generations of Palestinians largely believe that there is no such thing as Israel, and that the whole of the land is occupied.  So even if a full-withdrawl from the territories were to take place, no peace process would work until the large-majority of Palestinians agreed that Israel had a permanent right to the rest of the land.

In Israel, there are less than 10% of people that believe that the Palestinians should not be there at all, but 10% is a very small number that doesn't mean very much in a democratic society.  The real problem as I see it for the Palestinians, is if the majority of the people of Palestine do not accept Israel's right to exist very quickly, the window for a Palestinian State is going to close very quickly.

That 10% minority in Israel is growing very rapidly.  The right-wing religious Jews (as they are tagged) are out-breeding the left-wing families 8 to 1 every year.  And more Israelis are joining the Zionist camp because many of them are giving up on the hope that peace is ever possible.

The Israelis made a 100% withdrawl from Gaza, and the attacks continued to come from Gaza anyway.  So, all politics aside, the average Israeli sees that as an omen for what is to come.  They are slowly coming to the idea that the Palestinians don't want the territories, they want it all.  And if lefties feel like they can never appease the Palestinians, they'll give up eventually on the idea of Peace.  And, well, that is a really bad thing for the Palestinians.

So, what are your thoughts?  And I like I said, all politics aside... just the honest analysis of the situation.

The average Palestinian believes that the entire country is theirs from the river to the sea, and the average Israeli believes that everything within the "green line" is Israel.  Both ideas can't coexist, so something has to give somewhere, or this whole process will never move along.

More people would believe in aliens. jesus thats worse.

Sociologically the belief in a higher being has always helped people explain things, now that science does most of the explaining its not needed.

Faith in something is always needed to cope with tragedy. Religion, the opiate of the masses, is both beneficial in this context but easily abused too. Clinging to their religion and guns was how Obama put it. When challenged with economic, health, life threatening problems it is religion that helps people cope. 

The flipside is control, keep people distracted by fantasy while science is staring them in the face.  Personally i prefer the government to be held entirely accountable when they screw things up instead of reliance on higher being. Bring on anarchy i say, because atleast that might ensure something really gets done about it.

"Everybodys looking for a quick surefire solution, but faith in any God will only bury us all" - song lyric that i like

I don't.  It may not of happened in Israel... but it would of happened somewhere.

Human society has shown that it needs punching bags.

Had it not been the Jews... it would of been the Irish, blacks or some other group that would of led to this.

I agree.  Besides, Hitler was far from religious, and he killed religious & athiest Jews alike.  It wasn't the religion that mattered, it was what he perceived to be ethnic reasons.

Black gang members in New Orleans kill each other because of territory and sometimes clothing colors that represent another set.

So, like you said, mankind will find any reason to kill another human being.  Religion is just another excuse to do it, but even if it didn't exist, there is always another excuse waiting in the wings.

so you guys think that humans exist only too kill each other and that good does not exist?

Who said that?

Lots of people do good too.

It's naive to think that "evil" doesn't exist however.

Call it evil, leftover survivial extinct whatever... but it's been shown time and time again... that when there isn't someone to be predjudiced against... a civilization will make up a group to be predjudiced against.

Humanity needs it's scapegoats.