The War In Gaza

[Comrade Tovya]

superchunk said:

Comrade Tovya said:

superchunk said:
We've sort of agreed on other principles, I just feel at times we don't want to say it.

 

True... I have a great deal of personal feeling for the Palestinians as you, I just think we place more of the blame on different parties.

I know it's a non-factor now, but if I was all powerful (and could snap my fingers to make it happen) I would overthrow the Hashemite throne and give the Kingdom of Jordan to the Palestinians, and let the Israelis keep all of Israel from the "river to the sea".

I've always supported the idea of a 100% Palestinian Kingdom east of the river.. I've never been a fan of the Kingdom being run by the decendants of Abdullah. 

Actually, the original mandate long before 181, spelled out this precise plan... The Palestinians (or Arab's of Palestine as it was originally described, but same difference) were supposed to get that.

While that idea may seem fair in nature, its still isn't right to displace people from their homes.

The best policy would have been to allow Palestine to exist as a state under the conditions that the migrant Jewish Europeans be protected by law and their legally purchased lands stay as such.

However, I realize that the realism is that too much anger had already fostered between the two segments and the Jews probably would have been under constant aggrivation or at best considered 2nd class citizens.

 

I understand your point, and do respect your train of thought.

I guess the only question that remains is, what is not only a fair solutions, but one that will actually work and guarantee peace?

And all politics aside.... being realistic only...

I think it is fair to assume that this generation of Palestinians (not all of course, but the majority) will not accept a Jewish nation at all.  So, considering that the Palestinian majority wants all of the land, from the river to the sea, how can this process ever work?

And like I said, forget about who we both think is more at fault, I'm not even considering that at all...

If in the perfect world, all hostilities ended tomorrow, how could peace be achieved unless both parties accept the other's right to exist on the land?  What I am trying to say is, hypothetically, if the settlements in Judea and Samaria were completely disassembled tomorrow, and the Palestinians were in charge of their own destiny in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, could there be peace?

That's my biggest point really.  Palestinian textbooks still do not even show Israel on the map... so this and the last few generations of Palestinians largely believe that there is no such thing as Israel, and that the whole of the land is occupied.  So even if a full-withdrawl from the territories were to take place, no peace process would work until the large-majority of Palestinians agreed that Israel had a permanent right to the rest of the land.

In Israel, there are less than 10% of people that believe that the Palestinians should not be there at all, but 10% is a very small number that doesn't mean very much in a democratic society.  The real problem as I see it for the Palestinians, is if the majority of the people of Palestine do not accept Israel's right to exist very quickly, the window for a Palestinian State is going to close very quickly.

That 10% minority in Israel is growing very rapidly.  The right-wing religious Jews (as they are tagged) are out-breeding the left-wing families 8 to 1 every year.  And more Israelis are joining the Zionist camp because many of them are giving up on the hope that peace is ever possible.

The Israelis made a 100% withdrawl from Gaza, and the attacks continued to come from Gaza anyway.  So, all politics aside, the average Israeli sees that as an omen for what is to come.  They are slowly coming to the idea that the Palestinians don't want the territories, they want it all.  And if lefties feel like they can never appease the Palestinians, they'll give up eventually on the idea of Peace.  And, well, that is a really bad thing for the Palestinians.

So, what are your thoughts?  And I like I said, all politics aside... just the honest analysis of the situation.

The average Palestinian believes that the entire country is theirs from the river to the sea, and the average Israeli believes that everything within the "green line" is Israel.  Both ideas can't coexist, so something has to give somewhere, or this whole process will never move along.