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Forums - Gaming - Does the PS3 really need saving?

Pristine20 said:
forevercloud3000 said:
America is the obvious sourse of Sony's sales woes. I don't even see how this is refutable as the numbers dont like....

What is the difference between the PS3 and 360 in America?
-7.5million

What is the difference between the PS3 and 360 in Others?
-1million

How much total is the PS3 behind the 360?
-8.5million

Hmm now lets do some math, shall we? Which is the bigger chunk of the 8.5million?

America is the PS3's shortcoming, FACT! And as an American I can tell you it is NOT because its a bad product, NOT because it has no games. It is because America NEEDs 360 to succeed and PS3 works against that. THis is why you get 100+ articles every week all stating the PS3 is going to FAIL by the next coming week. This is why you get articles stating that BluRay is DEAD and DD is the Future?Right after hard numbers were released saying BD has a 350% increase? Right

You would thing Americans would know better though. I know our education rates are rediculously low compared to some others but where were they during Kindergarden? The first thing they teach you is "NEVER BUY AMERICAN!!!!" They lul you in with flashy prices then break your heart with shoddy products. Proof?
-GM/Ford, crap cars, everyone hates them, they are basically going out of business and our GOVERNMENT has to save them to help our economy.

-Windows VISTA, a load of hot garbage, no one liked this damn OS, IT was so wretchedly aweful, nothing worked for it.

-XBOX360, yea, its cheaper then the other console, but look at it's failure rate. almost 75% of all enitial 360s went RROD at LEAST once. That is not even including claims from this happening with newer models. I just had one come in last week that was just sold during christmas.

Yea, Now try your hardest to refute those FACTS Stage!

From reading his posts, S.T.A.G.E seems to harbor some inherent bias against the ps3 because sony added blu-ray and/or lost exclusives or something along those lines. I think you'd be hard pressed to convince him of anything pro-ps3.

 

I have no bias against the PS3. I am angry that Sony sacrificed their momentum to put a dying format that multiple companies had money on over intentionally. You know just as well as I do, that Sony can ill afford to screw around while Microsoft gains momentum. Thats all Microsoft knows how to do. They gain momentum and they eventually monoplize. Sony is the same way, but Microsoft is far more potent in the effort.

 



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It is not the common people of the US that are conspiring against Sony's push into America. It is the Media, Government, and MS bought publications(Variety Magazine) that are herding the "sheep".

Actual consumers, when knowlegeable about the PS3, and for the right price, will go that route. Unfortunately the Media is in constant HATE on PS3 mode so that is what consumers see all the time. The bad word spreads like disease over the internet. Because of this the PS3 has to work TWICE as hard as the 360 in order to sell. Yet even when the PS3 is doing very well WW, American publications still find things to nit pick.

And can you not see that the US is the ONLY reason the PS3 is being outsold WW?



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

forevercloud3000 said:
@Pristine20

I know, I dont even know why I try.

Oh yea and I forgot to add US based companies that are just evil...
Disney
Walmart
McDonalds(Damn that dollar menu)
Microsoft

 

 This is bias at its best.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Pristine20 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
forevercloud3000 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
forevercloud3000 said:
@Dino

The only consumers that seem to be denying the capabilities of the PS3 is AMERICA. Europe is very soon to be taken by PS3 over 360, and Japan is a lost cause for 360 with PS3 out selling it 3/1.

America is the country to be hit by this recession the hardest(seeing they started it). With the complete lack of funds America cannot afford the PS3 right now. America also has a very strong harboring bias against the PS3 in favor of the 360. 360 is an American made product that is doing successful. Americans NEED American products to do good because they boost economy. They need it more now then ever. This is why I believe US publications to be so increasingly and deliberately misleading about PS3 information. Almost everything is tried to turn into a negative.

It is not too late. It has barely even begun...

 

 Um no. America has the highest rate of consumption of the PS3 out of all the countries its being sold to. The 360 just so happens to appeal to Americans more and the price is an extra treat. Don't put this on Americans when they've been open minded to the PS3 and Japan have been biased towards the 360. Microsoft has done everything under the sun for them and they are ungrateful. Outsiders will always blame America for all of the shit that goes wrong elsewhere.  

 

Firstly, I am American(USA cit) for your information. I am not some foreigner looking in from the outside, quite the opposite.

Second, how can you even refute this when the information is right on the front of VGchartz?

US-

PS3:7.43million

360:15.71milliion

Others(Europe)-

PS3:9.14million

360:10.66million

Japan-

PS3:2.70million

360:0.87million

 

So if we look at this information given to us by vg chartz

Japan:PS3 is winning by a 3 to 1 ratio.

Others(Europe):360 BARELY! They are difinitely going to lose others before US is taken. This is practically assured.

US: With one of the largest populations around, this is the country that the PS3 has an obvious defeat. Who cares whether if its the country has sold the most units in, it is still also the country that has PS3 behind sales in WW sales. It is the one country that resists PS3 penetration while all others have embraced it.

And as a member of the US, YES, there is a butt ton of bias here. I see it everyday.

I don't care if you are American. I have plenty of Japanese sympathizers (Usually anime fanatics) in my wide circle of friends. This doesn't strengthen your argument. First of all Europe is not a country, it's a continent with many countries. Because of this it strengthens the validity of the fact that America as a whole has given more to the cause. All the 360 needs is the west. If Microsoft had japan by even 1 million that would be one million more of a gap in the race between Microsoft and Sony. You know just as well as I do that Japan has more nationalistic pride than America when it comes to sales. In America we'll buy anything as long as it's quality and the right price. You can refute this all you want, but this is why Japanese products have dominated in America from Televisions to cars. Don't call this bias if you have no proof.

 

C'mon now. Europe is usually compared as a whole to America because of the population available to sell to. Europe has 400+ mil people but some of these people live in countries that aren't first world so won't help the sales chart much. America has 300 mil people all in a first world country.

Also, America has a single official language while each european country has a different language which tends to hinder localization and sales as well. For these reasons, I think forevercloud's comparisons are fair.

I also have to agree with him on the bias here in the US. For proof, go to your local gamestop and do some chatting.

I do agree with you however about Japanese having way more nationalistic pride than America. I do have to point out however that one  reason for that could be that Japan consists of only traditional Japanese people for the most part. They don't allow much immigration from what I've heard while the US is an immigrant country period. There are some things that bring all types of Americans together though like many sports.

 

Europe as a continent has far more people to sell to. The difference between America and Europe is that Americans spend more time on videogames and have a higher product consumption rate. That is the true reason. You're also wrong about Europes population. Europe as a whole has double the population the US has. The US is the entertainment/consumption capital of the world, period. There is no bias. The PS2 sold over 40 million consoles in America alone as opposed to Europe who sold just a little over that as a continent. The 360 has achieved a percentage increase in Japan, but thats not saying much when the 360 offers so much more than the original Xbox did game-wise.

First of all English is the main sales language in the world. Forevercloud's comparisons were not fair because he has no proof in the world that America is biased to Japanese product. I have gone to Gamestop and where I live nearly every worker promotes the PS3 more. However the 360 and Wii still sell better despite their efforts.

 

 

I said 400+ mil people because I didn't know the exact population of Europe. It looks like you're right. According to wikipedia, europe has 730 mil people. I also do agree with you on America being the consumer capital of the world. We use up most of the world's resources by ourselves.

Remember though that there are a lot of EU countries that are not useful in this comparison like czech republic, ukraine and such but add a lot to "bloat" the population used for these comparisons. Ukraine has 150 mil people for starters but I can't see any console doing a 500k there. Also, you say english is the consumer language like it's somehow their fault o their problem that english is not their first language. What is spoken where you live is what you learn. Learning a second language doesn't appeal to many and in most cases, you can never get as proficient as your original. English being the consumer product language of choice (especially in gaming where language is a big deal) thus hinders sales in these countries.

In other words, factoring all these things I said in effect, the comparison of US sales to EU sales is all the more fair. The closeness of the ps2 sales in EU to US even adds to the reason why the comparison is useful. Thus the drastically different 360:PS3 sales in US vs EU has some meaning as forevercloud is trying to point out. I think there's a bias against the ps3 here in America like forevercloud is saying but I don't think it's any sort of "nationalistic pride" causing it because the US doen't really have anything like that due to it's population composition in the first place. I think it's more  a result of media presentation. Even my 9 year old brother told me that he read online that the ps3 is dying that I may not have anything to play in the future.

Having a respectable media outlet like CNN post the kinds of articles they've post and the furor when the ps3 originally launched in the US are the reasons I think fuel this line of thinking. Add the lost exclusives to the mix and it really lets the dogs loose. In my local gamespot, even the day I bought the ps3 , I was told it was just "garbage" and there was nothing to play on it. They also try to talk about me into getting a 360 and selling my ps3 whenever I buy anything ps3 from them.

Whenever I ask for a PS360 game version, they always bring the 360 one if I don't specify what system and many times even after I specifically said ps3 version. For condemned 2, they never carried the ps3 version till a week after launch. I had to buy it from kmart. It may not seem like anything to you since you favor the 360 anyway but for us those of us who have ps3s, this attitude takes a psychological toll. I just buy from amazon now.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

forevercloud3000 said:
It is not the common people of the US that are conspiring against Sony's push into America. It is the Media, Government, and MS bought publications(Variety Magazine) that are herding the "sheep".

Actual consumers, when knowlegeable about the PS3, and for the right price, will go that route. Unfortunately the Media is in constant HATE on PS3 mode so that is what consumers see all the time. The bad word spreads like disease over the internet. Because of this the PS3 has to work TWICE as hard as the 360 in order to sell. Yet even when the PS3 is doing very well WW, American publications still find things to nit pick.

And can you not see that the US is the ONLY reason the PS3 is being outsold WW?

 

Spare me. America sells Sony as one of the hottest products one can buy. Anyone who was anyone in the 90's had Sony tv's. Sony is a brand that demands a disproportionate amount of respect that it doesn't exactly deserve.

The media is talking about Sony's financials. When the PS1 and PS2 were selling well the media praised them. This is the thing about the American media. If you have celebrity status...one fault and they jump on you.

The PS3 has had to work twice as hard as the 360? Please. The 360 was looked at in the beginning with the evil eye from the world. Once the world saw that the 360 is a cheaper yet still potent HD experience they either loved it or hated it. Sony's marketing this gen against the 360's couldn't even hold Microsofts jock and the both of them have been laughable compared to the Wii. 

Sony walked into this knowing they would sell at a loss because Blu Ray was an 800+ dollar production cost. They had a $200 loss per system, so don't give me that crap.

If America fears Japanese product so much, then why has the Wii sold 20 M consoles in the states? This is as opposed to the other countries who cannot even compare.  It's all bullshit. This argument is weak. If everything goes wrong, blame America.

 



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forevercloud3000 said:
@Pristine20

I know, I dont even know why I try.

Oh yea and I forgot to add US based companies that are just evil...
Disney
Walmart
McDonalds(Damn that dollar menu)
Microsoft

Most corporations are just out to make money. Thats what they're made for. It's not necessarily evil.

 

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

forevercloud3000 said:

You would thing Americans would know better though. I know our education rates are rediculously low compared to some others but where were they during Kindergarden? The first thing they teach you is "NEVER BUY AMERICAN!!!!" They lul you in with flashy prices then break your heart with shoddy products. Proof?
-GM/Ford, crap cars, everyone hates them, they are basically going out of business and our GOVERNMENT has to save them to help our economy.

-Windows VISTA, a load of hot garbage, no one liked this damn OS, IT was so wretchedly aweful, nothing worked for it.

-XBOX360, yea, its cheaper then the other console, but look at it's failure rate. almost 75% of all enitial 360s went RROD at LEAST once. That is not even including claims from this happening with newer models. I just had one come in last week that was just sold during christmas.

Yea, Now try your hardest to refute those FACTS Stage!

 

They really teach American kids to "Never buy American"?  I don't know I just have a hard time believing any of your "facts".



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Pristine20 said:
forevercloud3000 said:
America is the obvious sourse of Sony's sales woes. I don't even see how this is refutable as the numbers dont like....

What is the difference between the PS3 and 360 in America?
-7.5million

What is the difference between the PS3 and 360 in Others?
-1million

How much total is the PS3 behind the 360?
-8.5million

Hmm now lets do some math, shall we? Which is the bigger chunk of the 8.5million?

America is the PS3's shortcoming, FACT! And as an American I can tell you it is NOT because its a bad product, NOT because it has no games. It is because America NEEDs 360 to succeed and PS3 works against that. THis is why you get 100+ articles every week all stating the PS3 is going to FAIL by the next coming week. This is why you get articles stating that BluRay is DEAD and DD is the Future?Right after hard numbers were released saying BD has a 350% increase? Right

You would thing Americans would know better though. I know our education rates are rediculously low compared to some others but where were they during Kindergarden? The first thing they teach you is "NEVER BUY AMERICAN!!!!" They lul you in with flashy prices then break your heart with shoddy products. Proof?
-GM/Ford, crap cars, everyone hates them, they are basically going out of business and our GOVERNMENT has to save them to help our economy.

-Windows VISTA, a load of hot garbage, no one liked this damn OS, IT was so wretchedly aweful, nothing worked for it.

-XBOX360, yea, its cheaper then the other console, but look at it's failure rate. almost 75% of all enitial 360s went RROD at LEAST once. That is not even including claims from this happening with newer models. I just had one come in last week that was just sold during christmas.

Yea, Now try your hardest to refute those FACTS Stage!

From reading his posts, S.T.A.G.E seems to harbor some inherent bias against the ps3 because sony added blu-ray and/or lost exclusives or something along those lines. I think you'd be hard pressed to convince him of anything pro-ps3.

 

I have no bias against the PS3. I am angry that Sony sacrificed their momentum to put a dying format that multiple companies had money on over intentionally. You know just as well as I do, that Sony can ill afford to screw around while Microsoft gains momentum. Thats all Microsoft knows how to do. They gain momentum and they eventually monoplize. Sony is the same way, but Microsoft is far more potent in the effort.

 

 The blu-ray format was new at the  time not "dying" as you put it. It's reception couldn't really be predicted which was a gamble. IMO, they just had the wrong vision of things. These people are humans not gods. It looks to me that Kutaragi thought the new technology presented by the ps3 would appeal to gamers regardless of the price. Perhaps, as an engineer at heart, it got to him that people always said the xbox's hardware was superior to ps2s so he got carried away on the tech front. He did say some outrageous things which didn't help the cause as well. Personally I don't really listen to PR so I don't care much for what he said. I did get a ps3 anyway simply because I wan't continuum and I'm heavily invested in a playstation library of games that still sees use. I do use ithe ps3's other capabilities now but they were not necessary for my initial purchase so I do agree with you that blu-ray was unnecessary yet BC was for me lol.

M$ would be hard pressed to eliminate nintendo but you're right that they've one-uped sony this gen and are capable of more. However, I also think that the very fact that ps3 has done what it has done despite the odds in price, loss of exclusives, media fallout, gamer rejection, etc means that M$ can't kick sony out of gaming either. Sony themselves would have to leave voluntarily if they feel they can't make money from this business anymore. Thus, M$ would be hard pressed to gain a monopoly in this ndustry.

 

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

S.T.A.G.E. said:
forevercloud3000 said:
It is not the common people of the US that are conspiring against Sony's push into America. It is the Media, Government, and MS bought publications(Variety Magazine) that are herding the "sheep".

Actual consumers, when knowlegeable about the PS3, and for the right price, will go that route. Unfortunately the Media is in constant HATE on PS3 mode so that is what consumers see all the time. The bad word spreads like disease over the internet. Because of this the PS3 has to work TWICE as hard as the 360 in order to sell. Yet even when the PS3 is doing very well WW, American publications still find things to nit pick.

And can you not see that the US is the ONLY reason the PS3 is being outsold WW?

 

Spare me. America sells Sony as one of the hottest products one can buy. Anyone who was anyone in the 90's had Sony tv's. Sony is a brand that demands a disproportionate amount of respect that it doesn't exactly deserve.

The media is talking about Sony's financials. When the PS1 and PS2 were selling well the media praised them. This is the thing about the American media. If you have celebrity status...one fault and they jump on you.

The PS3 has had to work twice as hard as the 360? Please. The 360 was looked at in the beginning with the evil eye from the world. Once the world saw that the 360 is a cheaper yet still potent HD experience they either loved it or hated it. Sony's marketing this gen against the 360's couldn't even hold Microsofts jock and the both of them have been laughable compared to the Wii. 

Sony walked into this knowing they would sell at a loss because Blu Ray was an 800+ dollar production cost. They had a $200 loss per system, so don't give me that crap.

If America fears Japanese product so much, then why has the Wii sold 20 M consoles in the states? This is as opposed to the other countries who cannot even compare.  It's all bullshit. This argument is weak. If everything goes wrong, blame America.

 

Exactly. And they've really jumped on sony this gen. which is where the "bias" comes from. You may not realize this but reading these articles influence consumer purchase decisions. If they think the ps3 will die why buy one? This contributes to the ps3's stalling in the US.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

@Legend11

Have you ever owned an American made product? If you had, you would know why........

@Prestine
I was kind of kidding with those last ones, but they are evil . As evil as a monopolizing corporation can get. You do know that Walmart ships there products from overseas sweat shops filled wit 10-15 year olds that are chained to tables and work practically all day for little money? That is no exaggeration and there is a documentary movie about it. The others are just as bad.

@STAGE
Have you even surf the internet for the past two years? apparently not because there is no such praise for PS3 going on at the levels you are tying to portray.

Lets take the recent events of Sony cutting staff. Did you know that Microsoft has been cutting about the same if not more of their staff i different divisions just like Sony? That they are indeed suffering from the recession like EVERYONE else. If you did know about that, how many articles did you see pertaining to that? How many pertaining to the PS3 cuts in comparison? I estimate 10 PS3 ones for every 360 one.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)