By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Ground troops in Gaza. Give me one good reason why this is needed?

Theres no difference apparently. 10 yrs ago Israel supported Hamas to get rid of the PA. Now its the opposite, so with the same kind of consistency that US dealt Iraq over the last 30 yrs i don't believe anyone knows what theyre doing.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

Around the Network
akuma587 said:
Comrade Tovya said:
akuma587 said:
Because the US will support anything that Israel does. They could be frying up babies to make latkas, and we would blame Hamas.

 

Uh.. no.  And "frying up babies to make latkas" is an old anti-Semitic story that caused many pogroms that resulted in the deaths of countless numbers of Jews in Europe, so it's really an inappropriate comment to use anyway to make whatever point you were trying to make.

 

Lol, calm down, dude.  I hate all races equally.  I'm giving an extreme example to show how extreme our support is for Israel.  I mean you NEVER hear anyone in our government say anything bad about Israel.  EVER.  Is that normal?  Should our relationship with any country be like that?  Its essentially the same kind of groupthink that got us into the recent financial crisis.  Everyone in the room was saying the same thing, and no one was allowed to disagree.

I'm just saying that the responses we get from the talking heads on any issue involving Israel is always horrendously slanted towards Israel, whether or not Israel is in the right.  And this doesn't even reflect popular sentiment that accurately, or at least seriously masks some people's disapproval of Israel's actions and our past history with Israel.

This article can explain it better than I can:

Dem leaders out of step with voters on Israel's attack on Gaza

January 3, 2009

A new Rasmussen Reports poll -- the first to survey American public opinion specifically regarding the Israeli attack on Gaza -- strongly bolsters the severe disconnect between American public opinion on U.S. policy toward Israel and the consensus views expressed by America's political leadership.

Not only does Rasmussen find that Americans generally "are closely divided over whether the Jewish state should be taking military action against militants in the Gaza Strip" (44 percent to 41 percent, with 15 percent undecided), but Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the Israeli offensive -- by a 24-point margin. By stark contrast, Republicans, as one would expect (in light of their history of supporting virtually any proposed attack on Arabs and Muslims), overwhelmingly support the Israeli bombing campaign (62 percent to 27 percent).

It's not at all surprising that Republican leaders -- from Dick Cheney and John Bolton to virtually all appendages of the right-wing noise machine -- are unquestioning supporters of the Israeli attack. After all, they're expressing the core ideology of the overwhelming majority of their voters and audience.

Much more notable is the fact that Democratic leaders -- including Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi -- are just as lock step in their blind, uncritical support for the Israeli attack, in their absolute refusal to utter a word of criticism of, or even reservations about, Israeli actions.

While some Democratic politicians who are marginalized by the party's leadership are willing to express the views that Democratic voters overwhelmingly embrace, the suffocating, fully bipartisan orthodoxy which typically predominates in America when it comes to Israel is in full force with this latest conflict.

Is there any other significant issue in American political life, besides Israel, where citizens split almost evenly in their views, yet the leaders of both parties adopt identical positions which leave half of the citizenry with no real voice?

More notably still, is there any other position, besides Israel, where a party's voters overwhelmingly embrace one position (Israel should not have attacked Gaza) but that party's leadership unanimously embraces the exact opposite position (Israel was absolutely right to attack Gaza and the U.S. must support Israel unequivocally)?

Equally noteworthy is that the factional breakdown regarding Israel-Gaza mirrors quite closely the factional alliances that arose with regard to the Iraq war. Just as was true with Iraq, one finds vigorous pro-war sentiment among the Dick Cheney/National Review/neoconservative/hard-core-GOP crowd, joined (as was true for Iraq) by some American liberals who typically oppose that faction yet eagerly join with them on Israel.

Meanwhile, most of the rest of the world -- Europe, South America, Asia, the Middle East, the U.N. leadership -- opposes and condemns the attack, all to no avail. The parties with the superior military might -- the U.S. and Israel -- dismiss world opinion as essentially irrelevant. Even the pro-war rhetorical tactics are the same, just as those who opposed the Iraq war were said to be "pro-Saddam," those who oppose the Israeli attack on Gaza are now "pro-Hamas."

There are certainly meaningful differences between the U.S. attack on Iraq and the Israeli attack on Gaza (most notably the fact that Hamas does shoot rockets into Israel and has killed Israeli civilians and Israel is blockading and occupying Palestinian land, whereas Iraq did not attack and could not attack the U.S. as the U.S. was sanctioning them and controlling their airspace). But the underlying logic of both wars is far more similar than different: military attacks, invasions and occupations will end rather than exacerbate terrorism; the Muslim world only understands brute force; the root causes of the disputes are irrelevant; diplomacy and the U.N. are largely worthless.

It's therefore entirely unsurprising that the sides split along the same general lines. What's actually somewhat remarkable is that there is even more lock-step consensus among America's political leadership supporting the Israeli attack on Gaza than there was supporting the U.S. attack on Iraq.

 

 

Hate all races equally, what does that mean?

The very statement "frying up babies to make latkas" is just ignorant, as no American would stand behind Israel (or any other nation) if such a thing were to happen to any people.  With that being said, despite your intentions, it doesn't give you the right to use racially provocative language to provide a gross exageration of America's support for Israel.  As I stated before, that very statement has been made by anti-Semites since the middle ages as an accusation as to what Jews did to Christian children, and hence gave Christians false justification for the murder of Jews, so for you to throw that statement out there is unacceptable.  You dishonor my murdered ancestors by making such statements, so you'll just have to forgive me if I take offense to it.  I do hope we are clear on this matter now.

As for the article you posted, it's irrelevant to me.  I think it's well founded in this forum that I am a conservative, and my party of choice (Republican) supports Israel as I so desire.  If the voting bloc that votes for the Democrats is unhappy with their party support of Israel, then it's on their shoulders to make a change within their party, not mine.  So instead of griping to me about the Democrat's support for Israel (that you seemingly see as unjustified) then do your part to reign in their support for your position if that is your party of choice.  Why are you complaining to me, a Republican, about a party that I don't vote for anyway?



MarioKart:

Wii Code:

2278-0348-4368

1697-4391-7093-9431

XBOX LIVE: Comrade Tovya 2
PSN ID:

Comrade_Tovya

Comrade Tovya said:

 

Hate all races equally, what does that mean?

The very statement "frying up babies to make latkas" is just ignorant, as no American would stand behind Israel (or any other nation) if such a thing were to happen to any people.  With that being said, despite your intentions, it doesn't give you the right to use racially provocative language to provide a gross exageration of America's support for Israel.  As I stated before, that very statement has been made by anti-Semites since the middle ages as an accusation as to what Jews did to Christian children, and hence gave Christians false justification for the murder of Jews, so for you to throw that statement out there is unacceptable.  You dishonor my murdered ancestors by making such statements, so you'll just have to forgive me if I take offense to it.  I do hope we are clear on this matter now.

As for the article you posted, it's irrelevant to me.  I think it's well founded in this forum that I am a conservative, and my party of choice (Republican) supports Israel as I so desire.  If the voting bloc that votes for the Democrats is unhappy with their party support of Israel, then it's on their shoulders to make a change within their party, not mine.  So instead of griping to me about the Democrat's support for Israel (that you seemingly see as unjustified) then do your part to reign in their support for your position if that is your party of choice.  Why are you complaining to me, a Republican, about a party that I don't vote for anyway?

As for your first part.  We are on the internet.  Chill out.  1) I'm not serious 2) If people took what everyone said on the internet seriously then the murder rate in this country would be much higher.  When I say I hate all races equally I mean that I am an equal opportunity discriminator.  I just dislike everybody.  I am white, and I can't stand a lot of white people.  The males especially are often ignorant, overweight, xenophobic, and in the South they are inbred.  There are plenty of black, Hispanic, and Asian people I can't stand too.

Honestly, I probably have less gripes about Jews than just about any other race/ethnic groups.  I get along great with Jewish people.  Most of them I've met have a good sense a humor.  Nothing bad was intended, and my reference was more to American Psycho than any kind of ethnic slur (funny character who makes a bad latka joke not involving babies).  But you shouldn't get upset about what people on the internet say regardless, even if it is racist.  Give someone a keyboard and their IQ drops in half.

As for the second part, its not just about what my party does, I'm just talking about the lack of social dialog in general.  Hell, I hear more debate over whether or not 9/11 was a conspiracy than over whether or not we should support Israel.  When people don't openly discuss something and there are no dissenting opinions, it usually leads to a bad result.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
Comrade Tovya said:

 

Hate all races equally, what does that mean?

The very statement "frying up babies to make latkas" is just ignorant, as no American would stand behind Israel (or any other nation) if such a thing were to happen to any people.  With that being said, despite your intentions, it doesn't give you the right to use racially provocative language to provide a gross exageration of America's support for Israel.  As I stated before, that very statement has been made by anti-Semites since the middle ages as an accusation as to what Jews did to Christian children, and hence gave Christians false justification for the murder of Jews, so for you to throw that statement out there is unacceptable.  You dishonor my murdered ancestors by making such statements, so you'll just have to forgive me if I take offense to it.  I do hope we are clear on this matter now.

As for the article you posted, it's irrelevant to me.  I think it's well founded in this forum that I am a conservative, and my party of choice (Republican) supports Israel as I so desire.  If the voting bloc that votes for the Democrats is unhappy with their party support of Israel, then it's on their shoulders to make a change within their party, not mine.  So instead of griping to me about the Democrat's support for Israel (that you seemingly see as unjustified) then do your part to reign in their support for your position if that is your party of choice.  Why are you complaining to me, a Republican, about a party that I don't vote for anyway?

As for your first part.  We are on the internet.  Chill out.  1) I'm not serious 2) If people took what everyone said on the internet seriously then the murder rate in this country would be much higher.  When I say I hate all races equally I mean that I am an equal opportunity discriminator.  I just dislike everybody.  I am white, and I can't stand a lot of white people.  The males especially are often ignorant, overweight, xenophobic, and in the South they are inbred.  There are plenty of black, Hispanic, and Asian people I can't stand too.

Honestly, I probably have less gripes about Jews than just about any other race/ethnic groups.  I get along great with Jewish people.  Most of them I've met have a good sense a humor.  Nothing bad was intended, and my reference was more to American Psycho than any kind of ethnic slur (funny character who makes a bad latka joke not involving babies).  But you shouldn't get upset about what people on the internet say regardless, even if it is racist.  Give someone a keyboard and their IQ drops in half.

As for the second part, its not just about what my party does, I'm just talking about the lack of social dialog in general.  Hell, I hear more debate over whether or not 9/11 was a conspiracy than over whether or not we should support Israel.  When people don't openly discuss something and there are no dissenting opinions, it usually leads to a bad result.

 

If racist remarks in this forum were no big deal, then the moderators wouldn't ban so many people for such comments.  So as I stated before, I don't care what your intentions were. It's no different if you were to joke about African-American's being enslaved or using sterotypes about that same group that are often used by racists to make some point that was on your mind.  It doesn't change the fact that its inappropriate.

And yes, I am well aware that the internet is full of ignorant racists, and hence, that's why I avoid websites/forums that promote or tolerate racisim (i.e., Nazi websites, white supremacy forums, etc.).  I enjoy VGChartz because it does have a zero-tolerance policy to racism, and wouldn't come here if this forum were any different.  I disagree with people here everyday, and I trade jabs with them... and I don't mind when they dish it back out to me as well.  It's all in good fun.  But racist comments (even for to make a point) or racially provocative language is completely off limits.

Now on to the meat of the post...

Your point is in a way, my point.  America's policy of general support of Israel falls within my own beliefs of doing such.  If you do not believe in the same level of support for Israel that I do, then you and other like-minded individuals need to do something about it.  I can see no reason for me to complain that the government should do anything other than it is doing, because, well, it supports my general position on Israel.  It would be rather silly of me to be upset because the government does what I want them to do.

Yet, putting your shoes on my feet, if America were to change it position into the antagonist role in regards to Israel, it would be up to me (and other like-minded individuals) to work politically to work for a change in its position.

And I disagree that Americans are not talking about the subject that you refer to, because we are all doing that right now.  This forum is just one example of social dialogue on the subject of U.S.-Israeli relations.  I have personally been to synagogue open forums that discuss this subject as well (and I also have spent a great deal of time in D.C. doing the same thing with different political groups).  The conversation is alive and well and has been since 1948.



MarioKart:

Wii Code:

2278-0348-4368

1697-4391-7093-9431

XBOX LIVE: Comrade Tovya 2
PSN ID:

Comrade_Tovya

Comrade Tovya said:
akuma587 said:
Comrade Tovya said:
akuma587 said:
Because the US will support anything that Israel does. They could be frying up babies to make latkas, and we would blame Hamas.

 

Uh.. no.  And "frying up babies to make latkas" is an old anti-Semitic story that caused many pogroms that resulted in the deaths of countless numbers of Jews in Europe, so it's really an inappropriate comment to use anyway to make whatever point you were trying to make.

 

Lol, calm down, dude.  I hate all races equally.  I'm giving an extreme example to show how extreme our support is for Israel.  I mean you NEVER hear anyone in our government say anything bad about Israel.  EVER.  Is that normal?  Should our relationship with any country be like that?  Its essentially the same kind of groupthink that got us into the recent financial crisis.  Everyone in the room was saying the same thing, and no one was allowed to disagree.

I'm just saying that the responses we get from the talking heads on any issue involving Israel is always horrendously slanted towards Israel, whether or not Israel is in the right.  And this doesn't even reflect popular sentiment that accurately, or at least seriously masks some people's disapproval of Israel's actions and our past history with Israel.

This article can explain it better than I can:

Dem leaders out of step with voters on Israel's attack on Gaza

January 3, 2009

A new Rasmussen Reports poll -- the first to survey American public opinion specifically regarding the Israeli attack on Gaza -- strongly bolsters the severe disconnect between American public opinion on U.S. policy toward Israel and the consensus views expressed by America's political leadership.

Not only does Rasmussen find that Americans generally "are closely divided over whether the Jewish state should be taking military action against militants in the Gaza Strip" (44 percent to 41 percent, with 15 percent undecided), but Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the Israeli offensive -- by a 24-point margin. By stark contrast, Republicans, as one would expect (in light of their history of supporting virtually any proposed attack on Arabs and Muslims), overwhelmingly support the Israeli bombing campaign (62 percent to 27 percent).

It's not at all surprising that Republican leaders -- from Dick Cheney and John Bolton to virtually all appendages of the right-wing noise machine -- are unquestioning supporters of the Israeli attack. After all, they're expressing the core ideology of the overwhelming majority of their voters and audience.

Much more notable is the fact that Democratic leaders -- including Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi -- are just as lock step in their blind, uncritical support for the Israeli attack, in their absolute refusal to utter a word of criticism of, or even reservations about, Israeli actions.

While some Democratic politicians who are marginalized by the party's leadership are willing to express the views that Democratic voters overwhelmingly embrace, the suffocating, fully bipartisan orthodoxy which typically predominates in America when it comes to Israel is in full force with this latest conflict.

Is there any other significant issue in American political life, besides Israel, where citizens split almost evenly in their views, yet the leaders of both parties adopt identical positions which leave half of the citizenry with no real voice?

More notably still, is there any other position, besides Israel, where a party's voters overwhelmingly embrace one position (Israel should not have attacked Gaza) but that party's leadership unanimously embraces the exact opposite position (Israel was absolutely right to attack Gaza and the U.S. must support Israel unequivocally)?

Equally noteworthy is that the factional breakdown regarding Israel-Gaza mirrors quite closely the factional alliances that arose with regard to the Iraq war. Just as was true with Iraq, one finds vigorous pro-war sentiment among the Dick Cheney/National Review/neoconservative/hard-core-GOP crowd, joined (as was true for Iraq) by some American liberals who typically oppose that faction yet eagerly join with them on Israel.

Meanwhile, most of the rest of the world -- Europe, South America, Asia, the Middle East, the U.N. leadership -- opposes and condemns the attack, all to no avail. The parties with the superior military might -- the U.S. and Israel -- dismiss world opinion as essentially irrelevant. Even the pro-war rhetorical tactics are the same, just as those who opposed the Iraq war were said to be "pro-Saddam," those who oppose the Israeli attack on Gaza are now "pro-Hamas."

There are certainly meaningful differences between the U.S. attack on Iraq and the Israeli attack on Gaza (most notably the fact that Hamas does shoot rockets into Israel and has killed Israeli civilians and Israel is blockading and occupying Palestinian land, whereas Iraq did not attack and could not attack the U.S. as the U.S. was sanctioning them and controlling their airspace). But the underlying logic of both wars is far more similar than different: military attacks, invasions and occupations will end rather than exacerbate terrorism; the Muslim world only understands brute force; the root causes of the disputes are irrelevant; diplomacy and the U.N. are largely worthless.

It's therefore entirely unsurprising that the sides split along the same general lines. What's actually somewhat remarkable is that there is even more lock-step consensus among America's political leadership supporting the Israeli attack on Gaza than there was supporting the U.S. attack on Iraq.

 

 

Hate all races equally, what does that mean?

The very statement "frying up babies to make latkas" is just ignorant, as no American would stand behind Israel (or any other nation) if such a thing were to happen to any people.  With that being said, despite your intentions, it doesn't give you the right to use racially provocative language to provide a gross exageration of America's support for Israel.  As I stated before, that very statement has been made by anti-Semites since the middle ages as an accusation as to what Jews did to Christian children, and hence gave Christians false justification for the murder of Jews, so for you to throw that statement out there is unacceptable.  You dishonor my murdered ancestors by making such statements, so you'll just have to forgive me if I take offense to it.  I do hope we are clear on this matter now.

As for the article you posted, it's irrelevant to me.  I think it's well founded in this forum that I am a conservative, and my party of choice (Republican) supports Israel as I so desire.  If the voting bloc that votes for the Democrats is unhappy with their party support of Israel, then it's on their shoulders to make a change within their party, not mine.  So instead of griping to me about the Democrat's support for Israel (that you seemingly see as unjustified) then do your part to reign in their support for your position if that is your party of choice.  Why are you complaining to me, a Republican, about a party that I don't vote for anyway?

 

You have a point, why should you totally care about the opinion of a democrat.

OK so than I'll aim at you with the fact I;m a republican and oppose Israel in every way. It is an out of control country like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc that should be considered a threat to the USA and peace in the world rather than an allie that we should blindly support and turn the other cheek to war-crimes like killing innocent civilians without care and when questioned somehow try to justify the unjustifiable. It is like trying to find a justifiable reason why the PS3 could possibly sell more than the Wii. 



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
Around the Network

                                   ------------>Training<------------

 

Every few years you need to train your troops in REAL combat, regardless of how much training they went threw, nothing compares to real life situations.

And when I say troops I mean all the troops, not just the one with Guns, but the ones that communicate, the ones that runs the systems, more importantly the internal systems.

Also the weapons, every week 100's of new weapons are made (not just the ones that go boom) and they need to be tested. So they gather the best up and then use them in a real combat situation.

Like War Games the movie, how do you know that person will push the button? You need to test the troops as real as possible, and what better way then the real thing.

You lose some troops in the process.. but thats causalities of war, right offs, or cut list if you will..

It's a sad way to look at it but it's been going on sense the beginning of time, passed on generation to generation.

 



PS4 Preordered - 06/11/2013 @09:30am

XBox One Preordered - 06/19/2013 @07:57pm

"I don't trust #XboxOne & #Kinect 2.0, it's always connected" as you tweet from your smartphone - irony 0_o

ssj12 said:
Comrade Tovya said:
akuma587 said:
Comrade Tovya said:
akuma587 said:
Because the US will support anything that Israel does. They could be frying up babies to make latkas, and we would blame Hamas.

 

Uh.. no.  And "frying up babies to make latkas" is an old anti-Semitic story that caused many pogroms that resulted in the deaths of countless numbers of Jews in Europe, so it's really an inappropriate comment to use anyway to make whatever point you were trying to make.

 

Lol, calm down, dude.  I hate all races equally.  I'm giving an extreme example to show how extreme our support is for Israel.  I mean you NEVER hear anyone in our government say anything bad about Israel.  EVER.  Is that normal?  Should our relationship with any country be like that?  Its essentially the same kind of groupthink that got us into the recent financial crisis.  Everyone in the room was saying the same thing, and no one was allowed to disagree.

I'm just saying that the responses we get from the talking heads on any issue involving Israel is always horrendously slanted towards Israel, whether or not Israel is in the right.  And this doesn't even reflect popular sentiment that accurately, or at least seriously masks some people's disapproval of Israel's actions and our past history with Israel.

This article can explain it better than I can:

Dem leaders out of step with voters on Israel's attack on Gaza

January 3, 2009

A new Rasmussen Reports poll -- the first to survey American public opinion specifically regarding the Israeli attack on Gaza -- strongly bolsters the severe disconnect between American public opinion on U.S. policy toward Israel and the consensus views expressed by America's political leadership.

Not only does Rasmussen find that Americans generally "are closely divided over whether the Jewish state should be taking military action against militants in the Gaza Strip" (44 percent to 41 percent, with 15 percent undecided), but Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the Israeli offensive -- by a 24-point margin. By stark contrast, Republicans, as one would expect (in light of their history of supporting virtually any proposed attack on Arabs and Muslims), overwhelmingly support the Israeli bombing campaign (62 percent to 27 percent).

It's not at all surprising that Republican leaders -- from Dick Cheney and John Bolton to virtually all appendages of the right-wing noise machine -- are unquestioning supporters of the Israeli attack. After all, they're expressing the core ideology of the overwhelming majority of their voters and audience.

Much more notable is the fact that Democratic leaders -- including Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi -- are just as lock step in their blind, uncritical support for the Israeli attack, in their absolute refusal to utter a word of criticism of, or even reservations about, Israeli actions.

While some Democratic politicians who are marginalized by the party's leadership are willing to express the views that Democratic voters overwhelmingly embrace, the suffocating, fully bipartisan orthodoxy which typically predominates in America when it comes to Israel is in full force with this latest conflict.

Is there any other significant issue in American political life, besides Israel, where citizens split almost evenly in their views, yet the leaders of both parties adopt identical positions which leave half of the citizenry with no real voice?

More notably still, is there any other position, besides Israel, where a party's voters overwhelmingly embrace one position (Israel should not have attacked Gaza) but that party's leadership unanimously embraces the exact opposite position (Israel was absolutely right to attack Gaza and the U.S. must support Israel unequivocally)?

Equally noteworthy is that the factional breakdown regarding Israel-Gaza mirrors quite closely the factional alliances that arose with regard to the Iraq war. Just as was true with Iraq, one finds vigorous pro-war sentiment among the Dick Cheney/National Review/neoconservative/hard-core-GOP crowd, joined (as was true for Iraq) by some American liberals who typically oppose that faction yet eagerly join with them on Israel.

Meanwhile, most of the rest of the world -- Europe, South America, Asia, the Middle East, the U.N. leadership -- opposes and condemns the attack, all to no avail. The parties with the superior military might -- the U.S. and Israel -- dismiss world opinion as essentially irrelevant. Even the pro-war rhetorical tactics are the same, just as those who opposed the Iraq war were said to be "pro-Saddam," those who oppose the Israeli attack on Gaza are now "pro-Hamas."

There are certainly meaningful differences between the U.S. attack on Iraq and the Israeli attack on Gaza (most notably the fact that Hamas does shoot rockets into Israel and has killed Israeli civilians and Israel is blockading and occupying Palestinian land, whereas Iraq did not attack and could not attack the U.S. as the U.S. was sanctioning them and controlling their airspace). But the underlying logic of both wars is far more similar than different: military attacks, invasions and occupations will end rather than exacerbate terrorism; the Muslim world only understands brute force; the root causes of the disputes are irrelevant; diplomacy and the U.N. are largely worthless.

It's therefore entirely unsurprising that the sides split along the same general lines. What's actually somewhat remarkable is that there is even more lock-step consensus among America's political leadership supporting the Israeli attack on Gaza than there was supporting the U.S. attack on Iraq.

 

 

Hate all races equally, what does that mean?

The very statement "frying up babies to make latkas" is just ignorant, as no American would stand behind Israel (or any other nation) if such a thing were to happen to any people.  With that being said, despite your intentions, it doesn't give you the right to use racially provocative language to provide a gross exageration of America's support for Israel.  As I stated before, that very statement has been made by anti-Semites since the middle ages as an accusation as to what Jews did to Christian children, and hence gave Christians false justification for the murder of Jews, so for you to throw that statement out there is unacceptable.  You dishonor my murdered ancestors by making such statements, so you'll just have to forgive me if I take offense to it.  I do hope we are clear on this matter now.

As for the article you posted, it's irrelevant to me.  I think it's well founded in this forum that I am a conservative, and my party of choice (Republican) supports Israel as I so desire.  If the voting bloc that votes for the Democrats is unhappy with their party support of Israel, then it's on their shoulders to make a change within their party, not mine.  So instead of griping to me about the Democrat's support for Israel (that you seemingly see as unjustified) then do your part to reign in their support for your position if that is your party of choice.  Why are you complaining to me, a Republican, about a party that I don't vote for anyway?

 

You have a point, why should you totally care about the opinion of a democrat.

OK so than I'll aim at you with the fact I;m a republican and oppose Israel in every way. It is an out of control country like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc that should be considered a threat to the USA and peace in the world rather than an allie that we should blindly support and turn the other cheek to war-crimes like killing innocent civilians without care and when questioned somehow try to justify the unjustifiable. It is like trying to find a justifiable reason why the PS3 could possibly sell more than the Wii. 

 

I didn't say I didn't care about the opinion of a Democrat.  I said that I'm not going to join some nationwide fight turn the Democratic party against Israel... (A) I support Israel (B) I'm not a Democrat, that's a job for their own party faithful.

And the same thing I said to him applies to you.  If you, as a Republican, do not want your party to support Israel, then it is your job to make that happen.  What else do you want me to say, really?

 



MarioKart:

Wii Code:

2278-0348-4368

1697-4391-7093-9431

XBOX LIVE: Comrade Tovya 2
PSN ID:

Comrade_Tovya

sega4life said:

                                   ------------>Training<------------

 

Every few years you need to train your troops in REAL combat, regardless of how much training they went threw, nothing compares to real life situations.

And when I say troops I mean all the troops, not just the one with Guns, but the ones that communicate, the ones that runs the systems, more importantly the internal systems. Also the weapons, every week 100's of new weapons are made (not just the ones that go boom) and they need to be tested. So the gather the best up and then use them in a real combat situation.

Like War Games the movie, how do you know that person will push the button? You need to test the troops as real as possible, and what better way then the real thing.

You lose some troops in the process.. but thats causalities of war, right offs, or cut list if you will..

It's a sad way to look at it but it's been going on sense the beginning of time, passed on generation to generation.

 

Somebody's been playing too much MGS2.

And a society who would go to war just for training is beyond reproachable, though it does seem to me America just gets bored every decade or so and tries to get into a war.

OT: I think America is way too entangled with the Middle East to begin with.  We need to take a step back and completely reevaluate how we handle our interactions with the Middle East.  Or foreign policy in that part of the world has been nothing short of disastrous since Ronald Reagan and even before that.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
sega4life said:

                                   ------------>Training<------------

 

Every few years you need to train your troops in REAL combat, regardless of how much training they went threw, nothing compares to real life situations.

And when I say troops I mean all the troops, not just the one with Guns, but the ones that communicate, the ones that runs the systems, more importantly the internal systems. Also the weapons, every week 100's of new weapons are made (not just the ones that go boom) and they need to be tested. So the gather the best up and then use them in a real combat situation.

Like War Games the movie, how do you know that person will push the button? You need to test the troops as real as possible, and what better way then the real thing.

You lose some troops in the process.. but thats causalities of war, right offs, or cut list if you will..

It's a sad way to look at it but it's been going on sense the beginning of time, passed on generation to generation.

 

Somebody's been playing too much MGS2.

And a society who would go to war just for training is beyond reproachable, though it does seem to me America just gets bored every decade or so and tries to get into a war.

 

 

Never Played MGS2.

Whether it's beyond reproachable or not, it happens. Countries test weapons on innocent people going about their daily lives, and starting wars for training seems odd?

There are countries that start wars every 10 days rather then 10 years... so...

 

 

 



PS4 Preordered - 06/11/2013 @09:30am

XBox One Preordered - 06/19/2013 @07:57pm

"I don't trust #XboxOne & #Kinect 2.0, it's always connected" as you tweet from your smartphone - irony 0_o

I think that if terrorists in Canada started firing missiles across the US border killing US civilians while the Canadian government did nothing that the US would indeed do something to protect its citizens.

Some would question the level of Israel's retaliation but their motivation should be fairly clear (conspiracy theories aside).