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Forums - Gaming - Dragon Qust 10: The Snowball Effect

Squilliam said:
bigjon said:
Squilliam said:
@bigjon its probably only "well written" to you because he agrees with your view point.

Theres far too much internet speculation and second guessing in this thread. Obviously the smarty pants people here know why the Wii hasn't recieved the games they want and the publishers are just idiots.

 

 It was well written, I just would not have complemented him if I disagreed.

Not too many will deny that the Wii "hasn't" recieved as many core games as we'd like, especial Q3 and 4 2008. But the point of this thread is WILL recieve. And I too believe that the DQX is just the beginning of more. His point in this thread is that, DQX should be a red flag to all HD fanboys, but many of them and just trying to make DQX a non factor. I liken it to FFVII moving to the PSX, Nintendo is going to push this game on the west, and I am willing to bet there were people who thought Pokemon, Zelda, DK, and whatnot would not sell in the west, but Nintendo has succeeded there. I think DQX will outsell ALL other DQX games in the west combined (not saying as much as it sounds... like 1.5-2 mil) and will completely legimize the Wii in the East. Remember the SNES? Nintendo won in the US, but it was not a huge blowout, and in fact I think the Genesis egded it in the others, but look back, The SNES had ALL of the Japanese Support, and Wii is beginning to look the same.

I do not think the Wii will become the console of choice of most core gamers in the west (I do believe it will in the east), but I think it will become legitmate to them, and many of them will end up getting one because of the support it will recieve. But, I think it will always be a 2nd console to many core gamers in the west.

You've got cause and effect backwards. The Wii is getting DQ as an effect of it's dominance in Japan, this isn't going to cause them to substantially improve the situation there when the writing is already on the wall. FFVII was a major cause of the shift away from Nintendo towards Sony when the race could go either way. Money-hat of the century really IMO.

DQ as a game is not going to compromise its' core values which are somewhat incompatible with the west when compared to other I.Ps like pokemon. There the game was considered valuable wherever it released. The market is in Japan and thats where they will focus. If it turns out that it does well in the west following that model then GREAT! 

Furthermore publishers are so conservative they will likely not act upon the news of this games format until they get hard sales data in hand which is likely too late to effect a change on the development principles of these companies. It will be other games like Shaun White which are already released which will effect games currently in and/or going into production shortly.

Lastly, really the whole "Core"/"Casual" divide is intellectually dishonest and misleading. Gamers just want to have fun really, and we do better to ignore the very idea that one group of people will like or dislike a certain game depending on which group they fall into. Perhaps if we ourselves get out of this bad habit the Publishers could too because ideally all genres of all games should have excellent representations on all viable consoles. My favourite games last generation was Need for Speed: Underground and Civilization III/IV. One makes me core and the other makes me casual? Bah! Nintendo just makes games fun for everyone and it pays.

 

Yes I too have spent countless hours on Civ III-IV : )

Yes the Wii is domintating Japan, but there was always that "hope" for the PS3 to turn things around, I before thought that the combo of FF, GT, and DQ would revive the PS3... It seem that GT is not as popular as it once was, FF13 is being very westerized, and DQ is on the Wii. The PS3 has 0 chance of a comeback now.

There are still millions of gamers who love Japanese games, if the Wii begins to get all of them, they will get a Wii. As I said, I consider myself one of those people who cannot live with JUST the Wii. As much a root for COD:WAW Wii , I got the PS3 version... Mainly because I did not trust Activision after what they gave the Wii in COD3, now I am might at least rent it to experiance it.

I think down the road, must HD fanboys will pick up a Wii... they will make excuses for it, but for them the Wii will make an EXCELLENT support console, you just cannot beat the Wii's local multiplayer.

 



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

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Squilliam said:
@Aiemond

If Western publishers followed internet wisdom they would have released their $5 million Wii games with $15 Million dollar marketing budgets already. Because you thats what the wisdom on this site (probably others) demand.

While there is still a large majority that want every game on the HD systems. This is the vocal part of the internet community, and happens to mimic what the western developers want to do. Look at the way the majority of Gaf acts to.

 

And yes, this is internet speculation, but the evidence is compelling, especially the profit margins (or lack there of) of western development teams and eastern ones. The cutting of jobs as well. So, its not as if there is no evidence. It really does make sense.

 



Now Playing: The Witcher (PC)

Consoles Owned: NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, Game Boy, DS

bigjon said:
legend11's posts are denial personified

 

Really?  Feel free to show how it's denial.  Tell you what, take the top 10 shooters on the Xbox 360, total those sales and compare that total to the top 10 shooters on the Wii and we'll see if what I claim is true.  Wait you're going to say it's because the Wii isn't getting shooters, well it got a major one and as I pointed out that one didn't sell anywhere near its HD counterparts despite having the field to itself.

I think denial is thinking that Nintendo is going to make DQX its FF7 for the West.  Do you really think Nintendo is going to pour a huge marketing campaign into DQX on the scale that Sony did with FF7 and its sales are going to be in the 5-6 million range in the West?  I don't think DQX could ever be a FF7 in the West for various reasons and I can't see Nintendo promoting the game in the West over its own games.

Also the Wii getting *all* Japanese games, when is that going to happen again?  It's definitely not going to be 2009 since we already know of huge games coming out then, and it's not looking like 2010 either since Konami, Capcom, Square, Sony, and others have major HD games coming then as well.  So its 2011 then?  By then we're starting to look at the next generation of consoles and HD multi-platform gaming will likely be on all Japanese developers minds since the Wii's successor will likely be HD.



bigjon said:

 well written, I think all hd fanboys are in denial when it comes to what the Wii is becoming. Or maybe they think if they ignore the Wii enough it will go away.

Also, Kojami seems to have seen the Wii light too, I have heard is working on 1-2 wii exclusives, which makes sense seeing konami has stated recently they are investing in the Wii more.

 

I think you're the one in denial since you go out of your way to excuse the sales of shooter games on the Wii.  You don't trust Activision because of sales like CoD3 on the Wii and seem to imply that's why Wii gamers didn't buy it?  CoD3 was also on HD consoles but that didn't stop HD gamers from jumping all over CoD4 from the moment it was launched.  It also doesn't explain why Wii gamers didn't jump all over CoD5 even after hearing all the good things about CoD4, HD gamers didn't have anything like that when they bought Cod4.



Aiemond said:
Squilliam said:
@Aiemond

If Western publishers followed internet wisdom they would have released their $5 million Wii games with $15 Million dollar marketing budgets already. Because you thats what the wisdom on this site (probably others) demand.

While there is still a large majority that want every game on the HD systems. This is the vocal part of the internet community, and happens to mimic what the western developers want to do. Look at the way the majority of Gaf acts to.

 

And yes, this is internet speculation, but the evidence is compelling, especially the profit margins (or lack there of) of western development teams and eastern ones. The cutting of jobs as well. So, its not as if there is no evidence. It really does make sense.

 

I don't see a large majority wanting every game on HD systems.  In fact I see the opposite in that there are some that want every game on the Wii even if it hasn't proven it deserves to get certain genres over HD consoles.  They're of the mentality that core HD gamers will jump from the systems they own to the Wii when it's usually games that follow the gamers and the gamers in some genres are pretty much on HD consoles.



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"Hardcore gamers" Or rather those that are "true core gamers" follow the games regardless of platform. I don't think ppl are saying the HD consoles will get no support, just less support than the Wii. And in all honesty, that makes the most business sense.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

This is what a major japanese developer said about the year ahead. Thats one thing that they want to do, they want to explore the boundaries of development .The big developers, the ones that have freedom to chose were they want to work will always chose the most powerful hardware to work on, and no announcement will change that is it that hard to understand



Nagoshi ( SEGA ) :
- Before, you wouldn't make software for hardware which wouldn't sell. Things are now different. It's now a matter of fighting so the resources dedicated to the HD consoles wouldn't decrease.
- Making titles that actively justify the existence of the high-end consoles is a personal mission
- The 'multiplatformization' of the game software has little meaning. Digging further into each platform's characteristics and nature is what is interesting.
- He wants to make a new game using his experience with Yakuza/Ryu Ga Gotoku. He is also considering worldwide development, though he is worried about the stance that consists of appealing to the Western audience before the Japanese audience.



ok, the only reason why dragon quest 10 is on the wii, it' because the wii's user base is the biggest of the 3 in japan and the graphics of dragon quest are not hd, it will surely be the same as dragon quest 8.



Legend11 said:
Aiemond said:
Squilliam said:
@Aiemond

If Western publishers followed internet wisdom they would have released their $5 million Wii games with $15 Million dollar marketing budgets already. Because you thats what the wisdom on this site (probably others) demand.

While there is still a large majority that want every game on the HD systems. This is the vocal part of the internet community, and happens to mimic what the western developers want to do. Look at the way the majority of Gaf acts to.

 

And yes, this is internet speculation, but the evidence is compelling, especially the profit margins (or lack there of) of western development teams and eastern ones. The cutting of jobs as well. So, its not as if there is no evidence. It really does make sense.

 

I don't see a large majority wanting every game on HD systems. In fact I see the opposite in that there are some that want every game on the Wii even if it hasn't proven it deserves to get certain genres over HD consoles. They're of the mentality that core HD gamers will jump from the systems they own to the Wii when it's usually games that follow the gamers and the gamers in some genres are pretty much on HD consoles.

 

Yet almost all of these gamers have a wii as well and would buy the wii game if it only came out for the wii. Some of them say "its gathering dust" or "i sold mine" but still, a majority of the hardcores have this system or would go out and get one if the games they wanted came out for it. The problem you are having, as are other fanboys, is that you believe since the demographic mainly plays on the HD consoles now, that that is the most viable solution. It is not. The models now CANNOT continue, even if every hardcore gamer only plays HD systems. The budgets are simply too high. Sadly, the western developers seem to have no business sense, and cannot adapt, or simply don't want to. Their executives are incompetant, simply put. So what if they make a million, 2 million seller game? They fail on others, and this erases the profit. We have seen reports of record revenue, and then we have record losses the same year! IF TAKE TWO CANNOT MAKE MORE THAN 170ish MILLION THE YEAR IT RELEASES A 10m SELLER, SOMETHING IS VERY VERY WRONG.

 

So, by moving games to the wii, budgets go down, hardcore still plays them, companies make more money. Developers that want to work on HD systems may be assigned to wii, or given significantly less resources to make an HD game. Because if not, then they fail. And if they fail, all those devs lose their job, the company goes under, etc.

 

 

This is what a major japanese developer said about the year ahead. Thats one thing that they want to do, they want to explore the boundaries of development .The big developers, the ones that have freedom to chose were they want to work will always chose the most powerful hardware to work on, and no announcement will change that is it that hard to understand


Nagoshi ( SEGA ) :
- Before, you wouldn't make software for hardware which wouldn't sell. Things are now different. It's now a matter of fighting so the resources dedicated to the HD consoles wouldn't decrease.
- Making titles that actively justify the existence of the high-end consoles is a personal mission
- The 'multiplatformization' of the game software has little meaning. Digging further into each platform's characteristics and nature is what is interesting.
- He wants to make a new game using his experience with Yakuza/Ryu Ga Gotoku. He is also considering worldwide development, though he is worried about the stance that consists of appealing to the Western audience before the Japanese audience.

 

This shows they do not have the freedom they used to have. Look at the middle quote. He has to justify making an HD project, and it is his goal. This means the tides have significantly turned against him. He has to fight to keep his budget. If a big name like this has to fight, then it means the paradigm is shifting in that company. These developers are going to have to adapt. Remember, its not him making the decisions, it is the board and the executives.

 



Now Playing: The Witcher (PC)

Consoles Owned: NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, Game Boy, DS

sunday_goes said:
bla bla bla wii will destroy the competition bla bla bla same as usual

The same true statements as usual