| Comrade Tovya said:
Please don't mince my words, you knew good an well what I was saying. Israel existed long before the Arabs left the deserts of modern day Saudi Arabia... history goes further back than just the 20th century. Your idea that modern history dictates the annals of time is just wrong. Now I will break down your comments... A) The British did NOT promote Jewish immigration into British Palestine, and history has actually shown that they even tried to stop it. When they exhausted their time and resources trying to prevent fighting between Jews and Arabs, they made the decision to surrender their rights to Palestine to the UN to decide it's fate. The UN via resolution 181 decided that the survivors of the holocaust needed a homeland of their own, and split the former British Mandate into two states--and Arab one, and a Jewish one. The Jews were fine with the decision, and the Arabs of greater Pan-Arabia were not. Therefore, the Arab nation mounted a joint war against the Jews, and were thoroughly defeated. Israel gained land not out of naked aggression, but in a war of defense. And according to international law, land obtained in a defensive war is legally able to be retained. B) Jews didn't leave Arab nations out of the backlash of anger by Arabs, they were expelled from those nations, and their properties were seized. That's racism my friend. So you may want to keep off of the subject of racism, because the Arabs were the worst proponents of gross anti-Judaic racism. At least the Jews gave equal citizenship to the Arabs that remained within Israel's borders... and as I've stated before, are able to and currently do hold public office in the Israeli government. No Jew is or has been given that same right under modern Islamic rule. So like I said, yor better off not speaking the word racism in this discussion, because it's one subject that gives greater pan-Arabia a black eye. C) They didn't leave just because of the Stern Gang & Irgun. The Arabs had their own militias as well, and both groups took shots at each other and the British. Like I previously stated, and is historically proven, the British were tired of policing the violence between the two groups. Your revisionist history might make you feel good inside by pretending that the Arabs were these saintly people in the middle of the desert, but the actual history of Palestine & Israel proves differently. I don't mind if we disagree, that's completely okay. But if the reason for this thread is to revise history and paint the Jews as these "evil masterminds of domination", then it's a pointless thread. As I previously stated, I do not think Israel is a flawless nation without failures. I am honest enough to admit that Israel has commited folly before. Yet, on your part, you completely paint everything about Israel as being racist, illegal, and inhumane... but as for the Arabs, you paint them as these flawless victims who have done no wrong to the Jews. Really, give me a break. The Jews aren't perfect, but I can assure you that the Arabs screwed up big time by making war against them in 1948, 1967, & 1973. They lost these wars, and Israel gained it's territory in defensive wars, which as I previously stated, allows a nation to retain captured territory according to international law. I love how the pro-Arab camp likes to quote UN resolutions and international law when they think it paints Israel as an illegal entity, but when other resolutions condemn the Arab world or whenever they are guilty of breaking international law, they mock the UN as an illegitimate Zionist organization. The whole idea that withdrawing to the "greenline" would solve all of the problems is bogus. That was the line prior to the start of 1967 war, and the Arabs didn't want peace then... the fact that there is a Jewish nation in the middle of greater-Arabia is the only reason that the Arabs need to make war on Israel. And that is the reason for the slogan "Palestine: From the River to the Sea" that Palestinians like to throw up so often. The Arabs will never make peace until they have driven the Jews into the sea.
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A & B) Are you kidding me? Are actually claiming that Israel was split in two because it one existed over 1500 years ago? lol. Fact is prior to WWII Jewish population was at best 15%. There were more Christians than Jews at that time. They had zero entitlement to the land.
Muslims/Arabs didn't push them out orignally, in fact prior to this whole issue, Jews had better living conditions in Muslim lands than anywhere else.
It was a racist move to try to make up for another racist moves in Europe and Russia. Jews in the Arab world prior to WII had absolutely no part in Zionism. It was a purely Eurpean Jewish move because of the conditions they were having to put up with. In fact Palestine wasn't even their first choice. They also considered places like Philadelphia as a homeland vs actual state and places in Africa as well. It wasn't until the WW's when they start pushing for a return to ancient Israel.
C) True both sides took attacks to eachother. The problem is, much like today, the Jews had European weapons and military skills since most came from European armies. Whereas the Arabs were largly farmers with absolutely no military knowledge and aged Ottoman/Turkish weapons. The Jewish terrorist orgs were far more devastating and I don't recall any mention of Arab attacks on British. They concentrated on Jewish centers. Whereas the Stern Gang and Irgun largly attacked both. They knew they could handle the Arabs without British opposition so they wanted the British out.
I am not being one sided here, I'm just leveling the view you are trying to present. I have never said Arabs are without massive sins of their own. They did and do many things wrong all the time. I whole heartly dislike Hamas' military actions as they are purely anti-Islamic. However, I also whole heartly dislike Israeli actions and occupation of Arab lands. I fully understand that if the Arabs agreed to peace in 1948 or prior to 1967 then things would hopefully be different.
But, that was almost 40 years ago. Nearly the entire world says Israel should withdrawl. Nearly every single Arab/Muslim nation offered FULL RELATIONS AND PEACE if they withdraw. Israel should just do what's right. Take that offer as a strong starting point, have discussions with not only a PA rep, but also reps from the biggest Arab nations. Agree on a removal for right to return and slight modifications to the green line, but offer a lot of compensation and assistance to rebuild Palestine into a stable country. But, they won't. Why? because like the Palestinians have Hamas as a roadblock the Israelis have settlers.
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