Comrade Tovya said:
Final-Fan said:
superchunk said:
Final-Fan said:
1. I never said you did.
I don't see how that kind of silliness helps their position. Why would it shoot them in the foot? Why don't they just show maps with them having all the green line stuff you say they should have, instead of laying claim to the whole of Israel? It's sheer madness to think they'll get any more than that, isn't it? So there would be nothing lost by conceding it.
2. But they have physically increased in size, i.e. expanded the geographical area of the settlements? |
1. Its a matter of recognition and principle. Much of it is about appearances.
2. Yes, they have. Where do you think to 200,000+ settlers from Gaza moved to? Do you think a sane person that is peace loving would want to live in the middle of Gaza with millions of people who hate you? No, these are some of the most radical die hard Israelis. That's why they had to bring in Israeli military and physically remove them. However, nearly all just moved into new homes on expaneded territory in WB settlements. |
1. But what I'm saying is that the appearance of backing down from claiming ALL of Israel for Palestine is not conceding anything that isn't completely insane not to concede. What principle is involved in that insane claim?
2. So it was indeed expanded territory, as opposed to just adding to the population in already settled areas but not expanding the settled area?
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Actually, one of my best friends lived in Gush Katif, and they got moved into mobile homes within recognized Israel and not the territories as claimed. The leaders of Israel treated the Gush Katif evacuees very poorly after the fact. Many of them still have not received the aid that was promised to them by the government.
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lol, you are so biased.
Source 1
exerpt:
year............. WB................. Gaza........ Jerusalem..... Golan Heights... Total
2003 -
|
224,669 |
7,556
|
178,601 |
16,791 |
427,617
|
2004 -
|
234,487 |
7,826 |
181,587 |
17,265 |
441,828 |
2005 -
|
258,988 |
0 |
184,057 |
17,793 |
460,838 |
As you can see even as the ~7800 Gazan settles were removed the other areas gained for a total net gain of almost 20,000 peole. Populations as well as land area was increased and has been increasing even when Israel agreed to hald all expansions during Clinton's years.
Source 2
Source 3 (Israeli)
"...there are proportionately 22% more criminal files in Judea and Samaria than in Israel proper." Wonder why they have such an increase in criminal activity?
Source 4
This one talks about more than just current populations and land changes. Even touches on violence.
Source 5
*** You can now search for more. Google is your friend.
One thing that is funny a very large portion of Israeli citizens also want them removed. I can search for that too if you wish.
Source 6
That is just one poll, but I have read numerous times similar polls. The percentages are much higher for Israelis not living in settlements.
