HappySqurriel said: MikeB said: @ HappySqurriel No, 1080p is a well defined standard that refers to a resolution of 1920x1080 ... The term means nothing more than what is included in the name. Same as with 480p, 480i, 1080i, etc.   No! 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p are all well defined standards that (IIRC) are controlled by the FCC.

This isn't actually true, or again...sorry...it is true. But it works in the reverse.

For a display device to be classed as "HD Comptible" the display device has to ACCEPT a HD signal with a minimum resolution of 720p, in THIS case it has to mean 1280x720.

For a display device to be classed as "HD Ready" it has to be able to DISPLAY a HD image with the reolution of a minimum 720p, again 1280x720.

So, in the context of SD\HD resolutions, which we are obviously talking about MikeB is flat out INCORRECT. Also he's deliberately being a troll. Its obvious what we mean and in what context.

 

As many have said, both the 360 and ps3's GPUs (specifically fillrate and texelrate) aren't powerful enough to run at 1920x1080 and render all of the latest (And expected) materal pixel shader effects and post processing effects.

Games on PS3 that do run at 1080p (or as close as possible) while maintaining 60hz, lack alot of post processing shaders, use heavily compressed normal/specular maps with generally simple lighting model (so not to show off any visual defects there) and lower the detail. GT5 is a prime example, replay mode runs at 30hz and looks alot better, but in gameplay mode you'll notice that apart from the cars themselfs the rest of the environment is pretty so so looking, if you look hard you can see some low detail textures, textures are only getting a specular lighting materal applied to it (I Can't see any visible normal mapping going on).

While I feel its pretty bad for the HD companies to push the consoles as 1080p HD consoles, it overall doesn't really detract from the game themselfs. The games are still fun, look good, sound great and most games do get to a 720p _native_ resolution.

All n All, if you live and die by a game's graphics, then you really should be gaming on PC.

@ FrostyTop

720p High Definition TVs are HDTVs as well, just not "FullHD 1080p" TVs. That 1440 x 1080 camera is a high definition camera.

Blu-Ray movies are FullHD 1080p.



The output is 1080p FullHD due to PS3 scaling.

There are also other considerations and that's the quality of the used in-game assets, for games rendering in high resolution with low polygon counts and low resolution textures and such a higher resolution rendering will likely be far less beneficial. Luckily all PS3s have a hard drive and Blu-Ray disc to stream lots of very high quality assets (audio and graphics) pretty well potentially.

Isn't Geometry wars 2 1080p and 60 fps?

You pretty much have to balance detailed graphics, resolution, and frame rate. A high res photo of an ugly girl doesn't make her any hotter.

 

You could make a sick pong game at 1080p and 60 fps.  You could use a single color (like red) for the paddle and maybe make a 1 color blue ball, it would be sweet.

wakawakawa said: Isn't Geometry wars 2 1080p and 60 fps? You pretty much have to balance detailed graphics, resolution, and frame rate. A high res photo of an ugly girl doesn't make her any hotter.   You could make a sick pong game at 1080p and 60 fps.  You could use a single color (like red) for the paddle and maybe make a 1 color blue ball, it would be sweet.

 

Well you could use any amount of colors, or post processing effects. there are some core reasons to why you can do anything with those games

- Low triangle count on the scene. most modern Big budget games have scenes where up to 2 million triangles are visable, each vertex has a vertex shader run on it, each texel rendered has a pixel shader applied to it.
- since you have low triangle scenes and general player models, you're not using much video memory to store vertex based assest data, so you can go to town storing high res textures in there.
- With the Tons of spare budget rendering the scene, you can go completely nuts with particle effects and post processing effects at the full 1080p native res. it won't hurt much if you have to render the scene 2-3 times (which you do have todo with some rendering techiques, sometimes you might have todo a Z pass etc). You still have to live within the limits of the gpu's fillrate however. (with is about 4Gpixel/sec for the 2 HD consoles, bit less from the pc's GTX280's 34Gpixel/sec :p).

Simple budget games should be able to easily do 1080p @ 60 if they not actaully rendering all that much.

Jo21 said: NJ5 said: Outside of downloadable titles, 1080p 60fps games are very rare. Like Nintendo, most developers realized that there are more important things than resolution even regarding graphics. Of course, upscaling makes even older titles look nicer, for example Xbox games running under the 360 look nicer than when they run on the Xbox. On the other hand, there are more 60fps games on the Wii than on PS360. That's a symptom of the polygon-pushing-for-glorious-screenshots syndrome exhibited by PS360 developers. If a PS360 game runs at a stable 30fps without framerate drops, that's already reason to celebrate.     you clearly haven't seen wii ,ps2 or SD Video etc on a HD LCD, even on a small samsung 21' HD or a or full HD tv 32'.   it's a blurry mess, and not all tv have unscaling.

Actually I have seen the Wii running on two different TVs - a native 480p Philips 32'' CRT and a 720p Sony 32'' LCD. The image is good on both, in fact I haven't noticed a loss of quality in the LCD.

You have to use component cables, and the TV needs to have good upscaling. Provided you have that, it works fine.

 

MikeB said: @ FrostyTop But when we talk in the context of "HD", we are always referring to 1920x1080p = THE standard for "High Defenition". 720p High Definition TVs are HDTVs as well, just not "FullHD 1080p" TVs. That 1440 x 1080 camera is a high definition camera. Blu-Ray movies are FullHD 1080p. When smeone wants to know if a game is "1080p" they mean is the signal output to the display device at 1920x1080. The output is 1080p FullHD due to PS3 scaling. There are also other considerations and that's the quality of the used in-game assets, for games rendering in high resolution with low polygon counts and low resolution textures and such a higher resolution rendering will likely be far less beneficial. Luckily all PS3s have a hard drive and Blu-Ray disc to stream lots of very high quality assets (audio and graphics) pretty well potentially.

 

 The signal may be 1080p but the rendered image by the PS3 is NOT 1080p.

Otherwise we could say that DVD image quality = Blu-Ray image quality.

A scaler just changes the signal and smoothes out edges a little depending on how good it is. Expensive external scalers can change frame rate perform other manipulations to the signal.

But again, that is NOT what we are talking about, we are talking about NATIVE rendering of games, and how many there are available.

If you haven't got anything worth posting then please don't just confuse everyone!

1280x720 = 921,600 pixels
960x1080 = 1,036,800 pixels (using 2x horizontal scaling)

Using the 1080p = 1080 lines definition, it's pretty easy to turn a 720p game into a 1080p one... That's almost the same number of pixels.

 

This game engine currently still under development can be of interest in the future. It's said to be well optimised for Blu-Ray disc as well as for using the SPUs. And is said to allow for complex FUllHD 1080p games at 60 FPS:

http://talkplaystation.com/ps3-exclusive-new-wardevil-details-and-screenshots/

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec II features 16-player online races, over 70 cars (including tuned cars), 6 tracks, 12 layouts, 60fps (during races, replays are 30fps), Full HD 1080p and LPCM 7.1ch high definition sound

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_5_Prologue

 

<------------60fps+1080p

 

 

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue FTFW !!!!!!