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Forums - Nintendo - It's time for third parties to make Wii their lead platform

LordTheNightKnight on 18 December 2008

"Their best bet for this gen is the saturation factor - and the attach rate."

Bull. It's always been profits. Attach rate is a massive spin that can make the Gamecube look on par with the PS2.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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madskillz on 18 December 2008
noname2200 said:
madskillz said:
...for every hit, you have mountains of shovelware, and titles that hit the bargain bin way too quick.

There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360 - and they are a much, much safer bet than releasing a hardcore game to a very casual audience.

This won't happen.

By this reasoning, the Gamecube should have been first last gen, and the PS2 last.

Also, while you may be right about the lack of "shovelware," there are still plenty of "mediocre" and "crappy" games on those two consoles (as with all consoles). This applies equally to the Wii.

I'm not saying your answer is wrong, per se, just that your reasoning is flawed.

 

How so? Go to any retailer and look at the titles in all the sections. The Wii and DS have tons of titles in the $20 and under bins. Folks are looking at how it's selling like hotcakes, but does that translate into sales for them?

Look at Madden - look at Call of Duty and titles like Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy and the like. Then, look at Rock Band and Guitar Hero. Most of those games are family oriented games - and since the family is playing the Wii, it will sell. However, the angelic (cue angel music) R* and Epic would arguably lose money in this deal.

Even though it's video games, you are talking about two different audiences. Hard core vs. casual. Most HD console owners would barf at the thought of playing a visually flawed game on their system. And making the Wii the lead console will force devs to work twice as hard to make a game. It's much easier taking a graphics powerhouse and watering it down than going the other way.

Seriously, look at the games that sell on the Wii. Few of them are violent, sports titles or the like. Look at the games that sell on the HD consoles.

And with the US in a recession, what if they gamble - make the Wii its lead console - and the game, a really sweet one flops? The charts are filled - FILLED with several Wii games that are now littering the charts. For a business, they want a pretty much guaranteed return. Doing that with the Wii - in these times - is really hit or miss. See Free Radical. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GAMBLE on success with the Wii if you have HD console games down pat.

For once, I'll admit making games for the HD consoles first is the best solution, economically.

 



Avinash_Tyagi on 18 December 2008
Bobbuffalo said:
Why Third Parties won't embrace the wii:
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/why-third-parties-wont-embrace-wii/

So..the only one's fault of bad 3d party support on the wii is from *gasp* the 3d parties?! It makes so much sense. In the end, it will be their loss.

 

 Yeah Malstrom has got it right once again, the guy knows the gaming market, he sucks at politics and political predictions, but in gaming there's few better



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

noname2200 on 18 December 2008
madskillz said:
noname2200 said:
madskillz said:
...for every hit, you have mountains of shovelware, and titles that hit the bargain bin way too quick.

There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360 - and they are a much, much safer bet than releasing a hardcore game to a very casual audience.

This won't happen.

By this reasoning, the Gamecube should have been first last gen, and the PS2 last.

Also, while you may be right about the lack of "shovelware," there are still plenty of "mediocre" and "crappy" games on those two consoles (as with all consoles). This applies equally to the Wii.

I'm not saying your answer is wrong, per se, just that your reasoning is flawed.

 

How so? Go to any retailer and look at the titles in all the sections. The Wii and DS have tons of titles in the $20 and under bins. Folks are looking at how it's selling like hotcakes, but does that translate into sales for them?

Look at Madden - look at Call of Duty and titles like Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy and the like. Then, look at Rock Band and Guitar Hero. Most of those games are family oriented games - and since the family is playing the Wii, it will sell. However, the angelic (cue angel music) R* and Epic would arguably lose money in this deal.

Even though it's video games, you are talking about two different audiences. Hard core vs. casual. Most HD console owners would barf at the thought of playing a visually flawed game on their system. And making the Wii the lead console will force devs to work twice as hard to make a game. It's much easier taking a graphics powerhouse and watering it down than going the other way.

Seriously, look at the games that sell on the Wii. Few of them are violent, sports titles or the like. Look at the games that sell on the HD consoles.

And with the US in a recession, what if they gamble - make the Wii its lead console - and the game, a really sweet one flops? The charts are filled - FILLED with several Wii games that are now littering the charts. For a business, they want a pretty much guaranteed return. Doing that with the Wii - in these times - is really hit or miss. See Free Radical. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GAMBLE on success with the Wii if you have HD console games down pat.

For once, I'll admit making games for the HD consoles first is the best solution, economically.

 

Like PDF, you seem to enjoy changing the subject. I disagree with your conclusions here too, mind you, especially regarding he artificial divide created between "casual" and "hard core" gamers, but that's a discussion we can save until after we've closed our first one.

To simplify from earlier:

1) Did the PS2 not have more shovelware than the Gamecube last generation?

2) Was the PS2 nonetheless more profitable than the Gamecube for most developers? (NOTE: There is a link between shovelware and profitability, but that too is a point I shall reserve for another time).

 

3) What do you define as "a safer bet"? Do you mean sales by volume? Or do you mean money in the bank?

 

We will continue after you answer these questions. After that, we can address your more recent post.



madskillz on 18 December 2008
Soriku said:
madskillz said:
I tell you this - it won't happen. Think about how many really system-selling games you have. Folks see the popularity of the Wii, but look at the game sales for it. Their best bet for this gen is the saturation factor - and the attach rate. I know at least 10 folks who bought Wiis and WiiPlay and have yet to buy any other games. Ninny did an awesome thing with WiiSports - and giving a game away with WiiPlay. They made games that are free and you don't really need to buy another game. Sure, WiiFit is hot, but for every hit, you have mountains of shovelware, and titles that hit the bargain bin way too quick.

There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360 - and they are a much, much safer bet than releasing a hardcore game to a very casual audience.

This won't happen.

 

There IS shovelware on the PS3/360. Just not as much as the Wii. But the same goes for any losing consoles. The winning console (PS1, PS2, DS...no different) always gets a lot more shovelware than the losing ones. This won't change. Especially this gen where there's no sense in making shovelware for consoles that cost a lot to make games for. If it's not quality it'll bomb on them, and if it costs too much they'll lost money. That's a problem. While all devs won't make Wii the lead platform, some games it'll happen. But this isn't like last gen where system power was close (though the PS2-Xbox difference was pretty big) and Wii and HD versions would be drastically different. For multiplatform games this will likely not happen a lot, BUT the Wii is still growing at a VERY fast pace. Good exclusive games will take the place of multiplatform games on the Wii...and the Wii has many more of those than the HD consoles. You can see Take Two's latest comment and see that more and more devs can't resist. The Wii has Japan locked up, but the West is an even bigger market for the Wii. Once the Wii hits 50%+ marketshare, and while companies look at their losses, you're going to see some changes. How much change depends on how stubborn (or not) certain companies are. But we're seeing some Western devs shine/starting to shine on the Wii...HVS, Ubisoft (YES, Ubisoft, the supposed devil made Shaun White the lead Wii platform and are making that TMNT game that actually looks better than SSBB according to Nintendo Power). Not like the situation for the Wii will get worse, it'll only get better. I mean...with a 50 mil+ userbase in Q1 next year...how hard will it be to resist putting some major games on the Wii when the install base is just that high? The Wii isn't just made of casuals...there's still a lot of core, and they're worth a good gamble.

Dude ... look at the sales. Look at the charts and see what's selling. It's not games like GTA IV, COD and the like. You are talking about knowing how much you can get back when you invest it. Folks buying the Wii - what other games are they buying? As I stated earlier, family - FAMILY - games. I have a Wii and it's fun, but I'd never buy COD or GTA IV for it. Manhunt 2 was a gimmick more than anything. They want higher returns, and porting it to the Wii is the best case scenario.

Shovelware? You mean stuff produced quickly to get sales on the HD consoles? Yeah - movie-tie-in games are good ones, and some very bizarre titles come to mind. However, for every one of those POCs, you have a GTA, COD, Madden, Metal Gear and the like.

Hold on, Soriku. You said exclusive games were retarded in another thread - now you are defending it for the Wii. What in the devil is going on, son?

All I am saying is - yeah, the Wii is selling, yeah, the Wii is fun, but if you want multiplayer COD, you go for a PC, PS3 or 360, not a Wii. And look at the demographic who are buying the Wii. The games aren't hardcore, Soriku.

 



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madskillz on 18 December 2008
Bobbuffalo said:
"There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360"

you gotta be kidding me...

Care to name some? I'll get my Wii list ready for you too.

 



LordTheNightKnight on 18 December 2008
madskillz said:
Bobbuffalo said:
"There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360"

you gotta be kidding me...

Care to name some? I'll get my Wii list ready for you too.

 

 

Please nobody respond to this. It's obviously trolling. He wants this argument. You give this to him, you are suckers.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

noname2200 on 18 December 2008
LordTheNightKnight said:
madskillz said:
Bobbuffalo said:
"There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360"

you gotta be kidding me...

Care to name some? I'll get my Wii list ready for you too.

 

 

Please nobody respond to this. It's obviously trolling. He wants this argument. You give this to him, you are suckers.

QFT. Not that this will make a difference...

 



madskillz on 18 December 2008
noname2200 said:
madskillz said:
noname2200 said:
madskillz said:
...for every hit, you have mountains of shovelware, and titles that hit the bargain bin way too quick.

There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360 - and they are a much, much safer bet than releasing a hardcore game to a very casual audience.

This won't happen.

By this reasoning, the Gamecube should have been first last gen, and the PS2 last.

Also, while you may be right about the lack of "shovelware," there are still plenty of "mediocre" and "crappy" games on those two consoles (as with all consoles). This applies equally to the Wii.

I'm not saying your answer is wrong, per se, just that your reasoning is flawed.

 

How so? Go to any retailer and look at the titles in all the sections. The Wii and DS have tons of titles in the $20 and under bins. Folks are looking at how it's selling like hotcakes, but does that translate into sales for them?

Look at Madden - look at Call of Duty and titles like Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy and the like. Then, look at Rock Band and Guitar Hero. Most of those games are family oriented games - and since the family is playing the Wii, it will sell. However, the angelic (cue angel music) R* and Epic would arguably lose money in this deal.

Even though it's video games, you are talking about two different audiences. Hard core vs. casual. Most HD console owners would barf at the thought of playing a visually flawed game on their system. And making the Wii the lead console will force devs to work twice as hard to make a game. It's much easier taking a graphics powerhouse and watering it down than going the other way.

Seriously, look at the games that sell on the Wii. Few of them are violent, sports titles or the like. Look at the games that sell on the HD consoles.

And with the US in a recession, what if they gamble - make the Wii its lead console - and the game, a really sweet one flops? The charts are filled - FILLED with several Wii games that are now littering the charts. For a business, they want a pretty much guaranteed return. Doing that with the Wii - in these times - is really hit or miss. See Free Radical. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GAMBLE on success with the Wii if you have HD console games down pat.

For once, I'll admit making games for the HD consoles first is the best solution, economically.

 

Like PDF, you seem to enjoy changing the subject. I disagree with your conclusions here too, mind you, especially regarding he artificial divide created between "casual" and "hard core" gamers, but that's a discussion we can save until after we've closed our first one.

To simplify from earlier:

1) Did the PS2 not have more shovelware than the Gamecube last generation?

2) Was the PS2 nonetheless more profitable than the Gamecube for most developers? (NOTE: There is a link between shovelware and profitability, but that too is a point I shall reserve for another time).

 

3) What do you define as "a safer bet"? Do you mean sales by volume? Or do you mean money in the bank?

 

We will continue after you answer these questions. After that, we can address your more recent post.

Of course the PS2 had more shovelware - it's still being produced! The Gamecube is RIP - unless you buy a Wii and play your old GC titles.

More profitable? It has saved Sony's bacon to a point - and has helped this gen. Without out, Sony would break out the soup can and be begging right now. Is it profitable? Absolutely. It's making money because it costs next to nada to make.

Safer bet - you don't have to worry if your title will sell on the Wii. HD consoles have a good return with FPS, sports games and some niche games. If the game is decent, it will get sales. If you make a clunker on any system, it's gonna flop, regardless of how awesome the series WAS.

Bring the rest of the questions on. I enjoy the Wii - it's a cool console, but nongamers prefer the Wii vs. HD consoles. The sales figures are obvious.

 



madskillz on 18 December 2008
LordTheNightKnight said:
madskillz said:
Bobbuffalo said:
"There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360"

you gotta be kidding me...

Care to name some? I'll get my Wii list ready for you too.

 

 

Please nobody respond to this. It's obviously trolling. He wants this argument. You give this to him, you are suckers.

Dude - I OWN A WII. I like it, but to say 'There's no shovelware on it' and hint at it on other systems - I am just asking for a gaggle of titles. Show me one thread - one post - where I trash or troll on the Wii. The thread says 'It/'s time for third parties to make Wii their lead platform' and I am discussing why it's NOT. Dude, please - please - read my posts and point out where I am trolling. Thanks.