Kyros said: But IR is a better control mechanism for FPS' because it is closer to the actual activity involved bah if you want that get a rail shooter peharps. But FPS have 3 important control inputs: Movement Pointing Look direction. With keyboard/mouse and dual analog you shoot where you look. With IR you point somewhere and look around when you reach the border. Totally disorienting. Pointing devices are simply limited to the direction you look or for rail shooters. The quake trailer that was on the site recently looked cool, doesn't change the fact that keyboard/mouse is head/shoulders and feet above IR because the looking around input has been solved much better. (This is also better in dual analog, but its too slow and unprecise)

2 words: bounding box.

donathos said: Esa-Petteri said: Sorry, mouse+keyboard is a lot better than wiimote. But of course you can have your opinion. ;)   It goes without saying that we're all entitled to our own opinions, but a good argument is more than that. In my OP, I tried to argue why my opinion is correct, so: why do you think that mouse & keyboard is a lot better than a Wiimote?

 

Because it is more accurate, not to mention that you can use centered crosshair. It is quite amusing that some people actually consider holding a plastic thingy being closer to shooting an actual gun. Oh please. :)

 

Dude, why don't you just grab a gun and go shoot some baddies for real, that's the ultimate realism after all right? Because you don't have to put any effort to keep your reticule in the dad center of your screen, meanwhile with an IR pointer I'd have to constantly keep the wrist up and steady, for how many hours can you actually do that?

Also as for VR, do you really think that people will actually makes us do physical activity of any sort just to play a game? If anything it will be just like the Matrix, where our physical bodies just don't do crap and the rest is in the head. Basically think it and you aim in that direction automatically, think it and you shoot.It'd be even more like today's FPSes since the most important part is to actually give your thumbs the instruction to move, with this that lag would be gone.

Esa-Petteri said: donathos said: Esa-Petteri said: Sorry, mouse+keyboard is a lot better than wiimote. But of course you can have your opinion. ;)   It goes without saying that we're all entitled to our own opinions, but a good argument is more than that. In my OP, I tried to argue why my opinion is correct, so: why do you think that mouse & keyboard is a lot better than a Wiimote?   Because it is more accurate, not to mention that you can use centered crosshair. It is quite amusing that some people actually consider holding a plastic thingy being closer to shooting an actual gun. Oh please. :)

Uh... it is.  Don't try to argue that holding and physically aiming your 'gun' isn't closer to the real thing than turning it with an analog stick.  It's a self-defeating argument.

 

@Kyros:  you obviously haven't played much outside of Red Steel.  In most games, not only do you just have to aim slightly off-center to turn, but you can usually ADJUST this.  Fail.

 

thekitchensink said: Esa-Petteri said: donathos said: Esa-Petteri said: Sorry, mouse+keyboard is a lot better than wiimote. But of course you can have your opinion. ;)   It goes without saying that we're all entitled to our own opinions, but a good argument is more than that. In my OP, I tried to argue why my opinion is correct, so: why do you think that mouse & keyboard is a lot better than a Wiimote?   Because it is more accurate, not to mention that you can use centered crosshair. It is quite amusing that some people actually consider holding a plastic thingy being closer to shooting an actual gun. Oh please. :)   Uh... it is.  Don't try to argue that holding and physically aiming your 'gun' isn't closer to the real thing than turning it with an analog stick.  It's a self-defeating argument.

Analog stick? I guess this was about mouse and keyboard. Of course you can use your imagination and think that you are actually holding a gun or something instead of wiimote, but that is just... sad. It is just as "realistic" as a mouse.

 

I can spin pretty fast and I'm pretty sure most posters here can do a 180 in less than a second...especially if you're rolling on the ground, those are some quick 180s there.

In this case its not really aiming anymore but just a form of "analog stick" when you are slightly off the center. Note that I am not arguing that this is somehow worse than dual analog which it is not because you have a bigger movement translate into movement on the screen. (the main problem of analog sticks is simply that really tiny movement with your thumb is translated into large on-screen movement which doesn't work well ) But its not in any way more "natural" than sticks or keyboard and mouse.

In the end the only thing that can be measured is accuracy and in this regard mouse/keyboard kicks the ass of Wii and PS360. End of story.

Kyros said: In most games, not only do you just have to aim slightly off-center to turn In this case its not really aiming anymore but just a form of "analog stick" when you are slightly off the center. Note that I am not arguing that this is somehow worse than dual analog which it is not because you have a bigger movement translate into movement on the screen. (the main problem of analog sticks is simply that really tiny movement with your thumb is translated into large on-screen movement which doesn't work well ) But its not in any way more "natural" than sticks or keyboard and mouse. In the end the only thing that can be measured is accuracy and in this regard mouse/keyboard kicks the ass of Wii and PS360. End of story.

And that's exactly what the OP said. Wii controls aren't more accurate, but they are better.

And he's right.

I agree with the first part: "They are not more accurate", but the second part is at best subjective. They are definitely not more natural because you have to somehow "add" head movement to the "natural" pointing. So what is left is the "not as accurate" part. I would agree with better than dual analog though, I got used to it but coming from PC shooters they were torture.

Esa-Petteri said: thekitchensink said: Esa-Petteri said: donathos said: Esa-Petteri said: Sorry, mouse+keyboard is a lot better than wiimote. But of course you can have your opinion. ;)   It goes without saying that we're all entitled to our own opinions, but a good argument is more than that. In my OP, I tried to argue why my opinion is correct, so: why do you think that mouse & keyboard is a lot better than a Wiimote?   Because it is more accurate, not to mention that you can use centered crosshair. It is quite amusing that some people actually consider holding a plastic thingy being closer to shooting an actual gun. Oh please. :)   Uh... it is.  Don't try to argue that holding and physically aiming your 'gun' isn't closer to the real thing than turning it with an analog stick.  It's a self-defeating argument.   Analog stick? I guess this was about mouse and keyboard. Of course you can use your imagination and think that you are actually holding a gun or something instead of wiimote, but that is just... sad. It is just as "realistic" as a mouse.

1. the same holds true for a mouse.  Actually aiming something at a screen absolutely trumps pushing your hand around on a single axis, in regards to realism and immersion.  If you read the OP, he didn't say it was more accurate.

More accurate!=better

2. Yes, how DARE we use our 'imagination' when playing a 'game'!  What morons we are for getting 'immersed' in what are supposed to be 'immersive' experiences.

@Kyros: You really need to play a game like Metroid Prime 3 or Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 before you judge.  It's far, far more immersive to play while actually aiming something.