I generally prefer to go with the broadly accepted meaning of a word instead of making them on the fly, it tone done the confusion quite a bit. Whatever what you are describing is called, a thing is sure, it's not "mature". Doesn't mean much in truth, not without explaining the meaning you give to at least 3 or 4 word in that sentence.

I am not trying to be an ass here, it's just that having a discussion of this kind where everybody got it's own definition of the word is pretty pointless.

No

That's actually one of the definitions of the word, hold on.

Taken from Webster:

The game that comes to my mind when I read this is Super Mario Galaxy.

Would you agree that this game fits your definition?

Sure, Mario Galaxy is a good example of mature game design.

Hmm, that's an interesting question.

Would you call your perverted uncle who looks at pictures of naked women all day instead of getting a job, "mature"? Yet, the material he looks at is considered "mature".

I think mature is a state of mind. Generally people who spend the most time with "mature" things tend to be the most immature in reality. Now that is something to make you think long and hard about.

JRPG characters are pretty manly.

Khuutra said: Malachi said: Khuutra said: "Mature" in this case does not necessarily mean "adult" or "pandering to the taste of adults". It can also mean a piece of media that is fully realized as a form of expression, which has come into its own regardless of its subject matter.   I generally prefer to go with the broadly accepted meaning of a word instead of making them on the fly, it tone done the confusion quite a bit. Whatever what you are describing is called, a thing is sure, it's not "mature". Doesn't mean much in truth, not without explaining the meaning you give to at least 3 or 4 word in that sentence. I am not trying to be an ass here, it's just that having a discussion of this kind where everybody got it's own definition of the word is pretty pointless. No That's actually one of the definitions of the word, hold on. Taken from Webster:   Main Entry:1ma·ture Pronunciation: mə-ˈtu̇r, -ˈtyu̇r also -ˈchu̇r Function:adjective Inflected Form(s):ma·tur·er; ma·tur·estEtymology:Middle English, from Latin maturus ripe; akin to Latin mane in the morning, manus goodDate:15th century 1: based on slow careful consideration mature judgment> 2 a (1): having completed natural growth and development : ripe  (2): having undergone maturation b: having attained a final or desired state <mature wine> c: having achieved a low but stable growth rate mature industry> d: of, relating to, or being an older adult : elderly mature travelers> 3 a: of or relating to a condition of full development b: characteristic of or suitable to a mature individual <mature outlook> mature content> 4: due for payment mature loan> 5: belonging to the middle portion of a cycle of erosion None of those have anything to do with being marketed towards adults. My definition is the standard one, here. Games as a mature medium are in line with what I said, not with what you said.

Can you highlight the one which is similar to your?

I'm pretty sure this thing makes them Mature:

There's really no need to think of it any deeper than that.

As near as I can tell, this never ending discussion started like this.

1. ESRB creates a system that uses the word "mature"
2. Teens and pre-teens whose favorite genres typically fall in the M rating started assuming that by playing "mature" games they were in fact mature.
3. Fanboys who were a subset of the group mentioned in the previous point began attacking other genres/systems/whatever as not being "mature enough for them" or "kiddie"
4. Fans of the genres/systems under attack fought back by declaring the genres the (previously mentioned) fanboys loved as immature (under normal english definitions)
5. Other fans of M genres got drawn in because they now saw their favorite genres being declared immature.
6. Ad infunitum

Other than all sides getting so sick of this discussion that it cannot continue, I don't see any way it can end.

• The ESRB won't get rid of "M" - its a great marketing tool
• Kids are programmed to seek out thing that make them look/feel mature
• Fanboys will always slam everything that's not their favorite
• People will always react badly to their hobby being insulted
• The internet will always be a place where arguments can escalate out of control because the participants will use generalizations that will offend more than just the person they were arguing with 

This is what ESRB ratings really mean.

E- Everyone
E10+- Too difficult or crude for 4 year olds.
T- Think before giving to your 4-12 year old.
M-Do not give to your 4-12 year old PERIOD. Any age past that is most likely acceptable.