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Forums - Gaming - Why does Killzone 2 matter?

leo-j on 04 August 2007
famousringo said:
akuma587 said:
I'll tell you why it is amazing. Did you see the game? That is why it is amazing. No tricks, no nothing, did you see how it played at E3?

 I saw a gameplay vid on IGN.

 It almost put me to sleep.

 FPS is a genre that I've played to death. It takes something way more interesting than moderately improved graphics and animations to make me care about an FPS game. Battlefield 1942 did it with a wide range of weapon kits and vehicles, balancing combat between infanty and vehicles, non-linear map objectives, and a fun setting. Halo offered much the same thing on a different platform, adding in a fun single-player campaign and a more polished game than EA is capable of making. Half-life 2 had the physics engine which they loved to show off and the gravity gun gimmick which never got old.

 What does Killzone 2 have which is in any way unique? I've seen some people say story, but Bioshock looks like it has a far more interesting story and engaging atmosphere.


Did you read my post?



 

mM
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misterd on 04 August 2007
leo-j said:
misterd said:
I asked this awhile ago, and got no real response. Yes, it's possible that KZ3 will simply have some tremendous polish and prove a great gaming experience, but that's not something that can really be demo'd in the brief bites we've gotten so far. There doesn't appear anything special about it, even the graphics (which, again, are fantastic, but what FPS doesn't look fantastic on a next gen system?). Think of games like Half Life or KOTOR, which, if all you had to judge were the preview snippets, really didn't offer much special. It wasn't until you actually played through them that you could appreciate what they were.

So, yeah, right now I say KZ2 is 40% graphics, 90% hype and wishful thinking.
This isn't to say that it won't be a great game when it comes out (or that it will be), but that without the pedigree of other titles (Halo3, Mass Effect, Mario Galaxy) or innovative gameplay ideas (Assassin's Creed, Little Big Planet), there is simply no justification for this much hype.

Have you ever seen a game were your enemies actually react to being hit by a strong bullet and actually bleed to death on the ground, and move so realisticly,

React to being hit by a bullet? Yes. Drop on the ground and die? Sure. Bleed to death? Not sure. I don't spend my time in FPS watching to see how what I just shot shuffles off the mortal coil. Move realistically? To me, just another graphical upgrade.

 at the same time huge thunderstorms and allies fighting against the helghask and get killed by lighting, with destructable environtments,

 Thuderstorms are graphics. Destructable environments and fighting allies are not new, and certainly not uncommon in next gen games.

 and tremendous AI that actually think of a way to hide and even shoot with without looking at you while still hiding, and taking cover as well.

Seen plenty of FPS that have claimed to have great AI, and often looked great on a short run through. But after playing the game 20-30 hours I'd find the same basic "decisions" being made over and over again, and "intelligence" was again betrayed as deceptive programming. If KZ3 does have superior AI, it'll have to demonstrate it over the course of a game. 

Up to this point there has been not even one FPS that can do all that I have mentioned or even half of it. If it wasnt for the cell, none of this would be possible. Imagine that and it was a pre alpha demo. Nobody in 2004 or even 05 when 360 released would think that a system can offer that stellar gameplay and triverse action. And still people doubt that what they saw was even real.

 

"Triverse?" Again, much of what you speak of is being wowed by graphics, but what you see, not by what you do. The only thing that sounds like it might affect gameplay would be the AI - both of your enemies and your allies - and that cannot be appreciated in short snippets.

Sorry, but I suspect I am much older than you, much more experienced, and thus much more jaded about the claims a developer - any developer- makes. If you're hyped for the game, bully for you, but nothing you've rattled off is that different than claims I've heard many, many times before and, more importantly, shown in demos that didn't really give an adequate sense of a games mediocrity.

I'll wait for the actual release.



Sqrl on 04 August 2007

Bah, I scrolled through this thread hoping to get a good laugh out of KillZone3's responce...where is he?
To Each Man, Responsibility
endimion on 04 August 2007
leo-j said:
endimion said:
hum i'm talking about the joystick position which are not position naturally on the PS3 and I don't know about the new pad but the old dual shock wasn't sensitive enough compare to the old or new XB pad... i had an adaptator for pads so i can play with my XB pad on PS2 at my friends house and they could play with there pad on my XB and I always had the edge on the accuracy and comfort (they were cramping up before me) on FPS on both console... and I'm not that good as I don't play like crasy like they do... the position of your hands on XB is more natural especially the 360 (for FPSs)

Bro are you serious? Well its your opinion and I respect that.


 well it's also the opnion of a lot of FPS fans in general... and of those friends who use to use the dual shock... they all ask me to bring all my pad-s to play FPs after and they had better results.... since when is it more confortable to have your thumb at 45 degree from the rest of your hand ??? and don't tell me you don't play with the joysticks of the dual shock... beause if you don't you don't have a chance to beat me at any FPS lol :P I take the bet lol :D but I can understand you are more confortable with a pad you know and masterise well... but if you were use to both equaly I'm pretty sure you would change your mind.... it's what happened to my entourage.... they still love PS but for FPS they all agree on the XB pad being better..... once again for FPS only.... the dual shock is better for game using the D pad a lot usually 



leo-j on 04 August 2007
endimion said:
leo-j said:
endimion said:
hum i'm talking about the joystick position which are not position naturally on the PS3 and I don't know about the new pad but the old dual shock wasn't sensitive enough compare to the old or new XB pad... i had an adaptator for pads so i can play with my XB pad on PS2 at my friends house and they could play with there pad on my XB and I always had the edge on the accuracy and comfort (they were cramping up before me) on FPS on both console... and I'm not that good as I don't play like crasy like they do... the position of your hands on XB is more natural especially the 360 (for FPSs)

Bro are you serious? Well its your opinion and I respect that.


 well it's also the opnion of a lot of FPS fans in general... and of those friends who use to use the dual shock... they all ask me to bring all my pad-s to play FPs after and they had better results.... since when is it more confortable to have your thumb at 45 degree from the rest of your hand ??? and don't tell me you don't play with the joysticks of the dual shock... beause if you don't you don't have a chance to beat me at any FPS lol :P I take the bet lol :D but I can understand you are more confortable with a pad you know and masterise well... but if you were use to both equaly I'm pretty sure you would change your mind.... it's what happened to my entourage.... they still love PS but for FPS they all agree on the XB pad being better..... once again for FPS only.... the dual shock is better for game using the D pad a lot usually 

Well the anolog sticks were repositioned on the ps3 controller just a lil bit, and it feels better than the 360's controller In my opinion, but I love that leather feel under the controller.

 



 

mM
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famousringo on 04 August 2007
leo-j said:
famousringo said:
akuma587 said:
I'll tell you why it is amazing. Did you see the game? That is why it is amazing. No tricks, no nothing, did you see how it played at E3?

I saw a gameplay vid on IGN.

It almost put me to sleep.

FPS is a genre that I've played to death. It takes something way more interesting than moderately improved graphics and animations to make me care about an FPS game. Battlefield 1942 did it with a wide range of weapon kits and vehicles, balancing combat between infanty and vehicles, non-linear map objectives, and a fun setting. Halo offered much the same thing on a different platform, adding in a fun single-player campaign and a more polished game than EA is capable of making. Half-life 2 had the physics engine which they loved to show off and the gravity gun gimmick which never got old.

What does Killzone 2 have which is in any way unique? I've seen some people say story, but Bioshock looks like it has a far more interesting story and engaging atmosphere.


Did you read my post?


Just did.

Let's see, AI with enemies hiding and co-operating was in Halo. Destructible environments have been around since Red Faction. I couldn't even tell you the first game I played where an enemy "reacted to being hit by a strong bullet." Godfather and RE4 on my Wii are third person games, but they both have this feature. Lots of hazardous environments to be found in other games, so the lightning thing isn't really unique either.

So basically, you're telling me that Killzone is a revolution in combining, rehashing, and improving FPS features which have been around for 5 years or more?

 

Edit: And I should add that I don't see what the Cell processor has to do with any of those features. A good AI requires good programmers, not a powerful processor. Destructible environments require patient level designers. It takes man-hours to decide what breaks, what doesn't, and what effect breaking things will have. All the computer has to do is render a few more polygons.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

endimion on 04 August 2007
leo-j said:
endimion said:
leo-j said:
endimion said:
hum i'm talking about the joystick position which are not position naturally on the PS3 and I don't know about the new pad but the old dual shock wasn't sensitive enough compare to the old or new XB pad... i had an adaptator for pads so i can play with my XB pad on PS2 at my friends house and they could play with there pad on my XB and I always had the edge on the accuracy and comfort (they were cramping up before me) on FPS on both console... and I'm not that good as I don't play like crasy like they do... the position of your hands on XB is more natural especially the 360 (for FPSs)

Bro are you serious? Well its your opinion and I respect that.


well it's also the opnion of a lot of FPS fans in general... and of those friends who use to use the dual shock... they all ask me to bring all my pad-s to play FPs after and they had better results.... since when is it more confortable to have your thumb at 45 degree from the rest of your hand ??? and don't tell me you don't play with the joysticks of the dual shock... beause if you don't you don't have a chance to beat me at any FPS lol :P I take the bet lol :D but I can understand you are more confortable with a pad you know and masterise well... but if you were use to both equaly I'm pretty sure you would change your mind.... it's what happened to my entourage.... they still love PS but for FPS they all agree on the XB pad being better..... once again for FPS only.... the dual shock is better for game using the D pad a lot usually

Well the anolog sticks were repositioned on the ps3 controller just a lil bit, and it feels better than the 360's controller In my opinion, but I love that leather feel under the controller.

 


 HUMMMMM you likthe leather feel :P you like whips too :D just kidding, well of course at the end it's a quetion of opinion... but I was stayted that a lot of pure FPS player on conole (the one who play just that or close) really apreciate the setting of the 360 pad.....

P.S.: call me for the whiping :))))))) LMFAO  



IllegalPaladin on 04 August 2007
leo-j said:
endimion said:
leo-j said:
endimion said:


 


 

Well the anolog sticks were repositioned on the ps3 controller just a lil bit, and it feels better than the 360's controller In my opinion, but I love that leather feel under the controller.

 


 While it's mainly opinion (I prefer a mouse and keyboard against a controller), Leo-J is correct with the changes made to the Sixaxis. The analog sticks are MUCH better than the dualshock 2's analog sticks, which makes playing an FPS a lot better. If you listened to what Insomniac was saying while they were developing Resistance: Fall of Man, they praised the changes to the analog sticks on the Sixaxis. 

 



leo-j on 04 August 2007
IllegalPaladin said:
leo-j said:
endimion said:
leo-j said:
endimion said:


 


 

Well the anolog sticks were repositioned on the ps3 controller just a lil bit, and it feels better than the 360's controller In my opinion, but I love that leather feel under the controller.

 


 While it's mainly opinion (I prefer a mouse and keyboard against a controller), Leo-J is correct with the changes made to the Sixaxis. The analog sticks are MUCH better than the dualshock 2's analog sticks, which makes playing an FPS a lot better. If you listened to what Insomniac was saying while they were developing Resistance: Fall of Man, they praised the changes to the analog sticks on the Sixaxis. 

 


When you play resistance its extreemly confortable, and makes it feel as if your not even holding a controller in your hand



 

mM
endimion on 04 August 2007

yeah keyboard mouse is better... but totaly irrealistic when you do a 180° in a 10th of a sec.... I prefer the gameplay resulting from a controler than the keyboard.... even if you are way more accurate with a keyboard....
and he was comparing sixaxis with 360 not really dualshock... but that's a good thing if they changed.... me I don't like the PS pad... it hurts my hands too fast... I'm the kind of player who is very stressed on the pad and I need more volume to lay my hands on to feel confortable for a long periode of time... for me PS pad is too small... even before XB I use to buy the same kind of boomerang shaped pads for PC....

by the way MS is known to have a great list of pads and joystick for a while it's not like they are newbies on the market either...