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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - I have a 360 1080p problem, can some one help?

goddog on 28 November 2008
Mistershine said:
goddog said:
Mistershine said:
greenmedic88 said:
Mistershine said:
greenmedic88 said:

And I have to stop you right there. Upscaler chip or no, the 360 does a worse job of upscaling than the PS3, regardless of what 1080p screen the player is using.

Watch a DVD via HDMI cable on the 360 to view the 1080p upscaled image. Then do the same on a PS3. There is no question that the upscaler chip in the 360 does a worse job of upscaling video than the PS3. In addition to producing a softer image, the 360 also has some serious de-interlacing issues with upscaled video.

The 360 is crap at DVD playback full stop, so using that to show inadequacies in scaling is a poor choice.

The inclusion of Ana/Hana in the 360 was a good move from MS, as the chip itself is a very capable scaler, and able to do it's job with 0 help from the CPU to avoid a performance hit.

Unless you don't use your Xbox to watch DVDs, it's a pretty significant inadequacy.

What's the point of adding a hardware scaling chip if it can't even do a decent job of upscaling a standard DVD signal?

If I didn't use the Xbox to watch HD-DVDs from time to time, I would leave the console set at 1280x720, rather than automatically upscale all signals to 1080p. Virtually all upscaled signals, game or otherwise, are softened in 1080p mode.

 

What I am trying to say is that a non upsacled DVD already looks shit, so upscaling it isn't going to make it look magically better.

 

are you looking at vhs/video rips onto dvd, or film on dvd, cause there is a big diferince in quality, and some bluerays are just vhs/video upscaling, and not a film downscaling, so those suck too. there are very good quality dvds out there, you just have to know what to look for, and what to avoid in the blueray market. i have found quite a few dvds that upsacled better then native bluerays ive rented to watch at my friends apartment. 

 

 Are we on the same wavelength here? I'm not saying DVDs in general are bad, just that the 360 is crap at playing them.

 

missunderstood there, sorry. but id still have to disagree with that point too... when does the 360 do dvd hardware scaling to 1080p? it does it too 480p, your tv handles the turn to 1080p if you have it set to, my tv auto adjusts to what ever output comes from my 360,  xbox, ps2, and wii. I have not used a ps3 on my tv, and have only used it on a friends tv, so not a fair comparision  



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Mistershine on 28 November 2008
goddog said:
Mistershine said:
goddog said:
Mistershine said:
greenmedic88 said:
Mistershine said:
greenmedic88 said:

And I have to stop you right there. Upscaler chip or no, the 360 does a worse job of upscaling than the PS3, regardless of what 1080p screen the player is using.

Watch a DVD via HDMI cable on the 360 to view the 1080p upscaled image. Then do the same on a PS3. There is no question that the upscaler chip in the 360 does a worse job of upscaling video than the PS3. In addition to producing a softer image, the 360 also has some serious de-interlacing issues with upscaled video.

The 360 is crap at DVD playback full stop, so using that to show inadequacies in scaling is a poor choice.

The inclusion of Ana/Hana in the 360 was a good move from MS, as the chip itself is a very capable scaler, and able to do it's job with 0 help from the CPU to avoid a performance hit.

Unless you don't use your Xbox to watch DVDs, it's a pretty significant inadequacy.

What's the point of adding a hardware scaling chip if it can't even do a decent job of upscaling a standard DVD signal?

If I didn't use the Xbox to watch HD-DVDs from time to time, I would leave the console set at 1280x720, rather than automatically upscale all signals to 1080p. Virtually all upscaled signals, game or otherwise, are softened in 1080p mode.

 

What I am trying to say is that a non upsacled DVD already looks shit, so upscaling it isn't going to make it look magically better.

 

are you looking at vhs/video rips onto dvd, or film on dvd, cause there is a big diferince in quality, and some bluerays are just vhs/video upscaling, and not a film downscaling, so those suck too. there are very good quality dvds out there, you just have to know what to look for, and what to avoid in the blueray market. i have found quite a few dvds that upsacled better then native bluerays ive rented to watch at my friends apartment. 

 

 Are we on the same wavelength here? I'm not saying DVDs in general are bad, just that the 360 is crap at playing them.

 

missunderstood there, sorry. but id still have to disagree with that point too... when does the 360 do dvd hardware scaling to 1080p? it does it too 480p, your tv handles the turn to 1080p if you have it set to, my tv auto adjusts to what ever output comes from my 360,  xbox, ps2, and wii. I have not used a ps3 on my tv, and have only used it on a friends tv, so not a fair comparision  

 

 Does the 360 not upscale DVDs over VGA or HDMI? I never use it to watch films other than DVD rips, and even then I only have component, so I personally don't know.



goddog on 28 November 2008
Mistershine said:
goddog said:
Mistershine said:
goddog said:
Mistershine said:
greenmedic88 said:
Mistershine said:
greenmedic88 said:

And I have to stop you right there. Upscaler chip or no, the 360 does a worse job of upscaling than the PS3, regardless of what 1080p screen the player is using.

Watch a DVD via HDMI cable on the 360 to view the 1080p upscaled image. Then do the same on a PS3. There is no question that the upscaler chip in the 360 does a worse job of upscaling video than the PS3. In addition to producing a softer image, the 360 also has some serious de-interlacing issues with upscaled video.

The 360 is crap at DVD playback full stop, so using that to show inadequacies in scaling is a poor choice.

The inclusion of Ana/Hana in the 360 was a good move from MS, as the chip itself is a very capable scaler, and able to do it's job with 0 help from the CPU to avoid a performance hit.

Unless you don't use your Xbox to watch DVDs, it's a pretty significant inadequacy.

What's the point of adding a hardware scaling chip if it can't even do a decent job of upscaling a standard DVD signal?

If I didn't use the Xbox to watch HD-DVDs from time to time, I would leave the console set at 1280x720, rather than automatically upscale all signals to 1080p. Virtually all upscaled signals, game or otherwise, are softened in 1080p mode.

 

What I am trying to say is that a non upsacled DVD already looks shit, so upscaling it isn't going to make it look magically better.

 

are you looking at vhs/video rips onto dvd, or film on dvd, cause there is a big diferince in quality, and some bluerays are just vhs/video upscaling, and not a film downscaling, so those suck too. there are very good quality dvds out there, you just have to know what to look for, and what to avoid in the blueray market. i have found quite a few dvds that upsacled better then native bluerays ive rented to watch at my friends apartment. 

 

 Are we on the same wavelength here? I'm not saying DVDs in general are bad, just that the 360 is crap at playing them.

 

missunderstood there, sorry. but id still have to disagree with that point too... when does the 360 do dvd hardware scaling to 1080p? it does it too 480p, your tv handles the turn to 1080p if you have it set to, my tv auto adjusts to what ever output comes from my 360,  xbox, ps2, and wii. I have not used a ps3 on my tv, and have only used it on a friends tv, so not a fair comparision  

 

 Does the 360 not upscale DVDs over VGA or HDMI? I never use it to watch films other than DVD rips, and even then I only have component, so I personally don't know.

 

ive only ever seen it up scale to 480p, but i was told if you have an hddvd player it will upscale to 1080p, so theres that too



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minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

greenmedic88 on 28 November 2008

The upscaling for video playback doesn't require the HD-DVD player, only an HDMI connection which allows for up to 1080p output for DVDs.

The only thing the HD-DVD player is for is to play HD-DVDs, and reduce wear and tear on your console optical drive if you also use it to watch DVDs.

HDCP restrictions will only allow DVD content to output at a max of 480p over anything other than HDMI. There's little point in using any other connection unless you have an early model 360 or an older TV without HDMI inputs.



goddog on 28 November 2008
greenmedic88 said:
The upscaling for video playback doesn't require the HD-DVD player, only an HDMI connection which allows for up to 1080p output for DVDs.

The only thing the HD-DVD player is for is to play HD-DVDs, and reduce wear and tear on your console optical drive if you also use it to watch DVDs.

HDCP restrictions will only allow DVD content to output at a max of 480p over anything other than HDMI. There's little point in using any other connection unless you have an early model 360 or an older TV without HDMI inputs.

 

well i do have an early 360, so there is that, id like to pick up one of those Jasper with the extra flash memory on them next... it has 256. the extra flash memory is suposedly for NXE so that it does not require a HDD or memory card, but should streamline the whole NXE experiance,

 

http://gizmodo.com/5099721/new-xbox-360-motherboard-leaked-has-256mb-flash-memory



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minecraft name: hansrotec

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Mr_Tee_ on 28 November 2008

most of the games on 360 are upscaled i can notice the difference, but it doesnt hinder my experience of the games.

If u want to try out ps3 games at full 1080p non-upscaled i recommend Lair its such a beautiful game graphically at true 1080p i was blown away, but gameplay not so much. or u could try wipeout HD very crisp lines silky smooth frame rate. or GT: Prologue the cars look almost real!

I plan on buying planet earth on blu-ray, i dont own any blu-rays yet, but having stuff in true 1080p is surreal





Owner of PS3, Wii, Xbox360, NDS, PSP - Feel Free to add me on PSN or XBL :)

greenmedic88 on 28 November 2008

You can force all PS3 games to upscale to 1080p as well. It just doesn't do it by default.

All you have to do is turn off the 720p option in the display sub menu and all games will display at 1080p (assuming HDCP compliant 1080p display of course).

I don't recommend doing this either as it makes 1280x720p games (which is most of them) look softer, same as Xbox. But it can be done with a little knowledge of how display settings function.

Games that are native rendered below 720p look even softer (worse, IMO) when forced to upscale to 1080p (including PS2 games on a BC PS3). I prefer viewing all games at their native resolution for optimal clarity and sharpness.



Neoraf on 28 November 2008

Mr_Tee_, Wipeout HD is not real 1080p. The resolution is variable in real-time... it goes down to stabilize Frame Rate. Read article.

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is not 1080p Native.



     

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Mr_Tee_ on 28 November 2008
Neoraf said:

Mr_Tee_, Wipeout HD is not real 1080p. The resolution is variable in real-time... it goes down to stabilize Frame Rate. Read article.

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is not 1080p Native.

i guess thats why lair blew me away graphics wise, too bad i sold the game, but its amazing to see the amount of detail

 





Owner of PS3, Wii, Xbox360, NDS, PSP - Feel Free to add me on PSN or XBL :)

greenmedic88 on 29 November 2008

PS3 developers have already resorted to some interesting techniques to produce 1080p visuals. However, none of them (barring relatively low overhead games like Virtua Tennis) do so by conventional means.

Wipeout HD is 1080p. It dynamically scales resolution down depending upon the level of on screen action, but the default is 1080p. It's an odd display solution that hasn't even been seen on PC (no point really since any decent video card can display most games at 1920x1080 at a playable frame rate).

GT5P plays at a native 1080 progressive vertical lines of resolution. It uses non-square pixels, stretching the horizontal resolution out to the equivalent of 1920. Again, an odd, yet different display solution from Wipeout, but the end result is visuals that are virtually indistinguishable from a 1920x1080 native rendered signal. No pixel stepping, no edge distortion, etc.

And of course, MGS4 was simply upscaled from its native resolution to output at 1920x1080 (again resorting to non-square pixels as the native resolution was not a 16:9 aspect ratio resolution). The end result could have looked sharper (and would have at a native 1920x1080), but it still remains one of the best looking games of the 2008, which is really saying one of the best games to date, regardless of platform.